Atheists...

Re: Atheists…

OK, let us for a moment put aside the spiritual aspect of religion and concentrate on its ethical and moral aspect…

Queer says that man, even if not believing in any god or religion, would still be able to self guide himself…

Hmmm…That is pretty much in par with what the Quran states…That if Allah :swt: had not sent down any guidance to the people, He has placed in their heart something that will guide them sufficiently…However, it also states, that the majority of people do not wish to be guided nor are they capable of self-guidance…

Hence, we have people, who resort to things which we call ‘bad’…

Now, ponder upon what we consider ‘bad’ and ponder upon where this notion of ‘bad’ came from? It obviously came from somewhere? Entering someone’s house and taking their belongings is ‘bad’, but why? Why can’t I take anything from anyone I want? What makes it bad? What made it bad?

Obviously, the answer is religion…Before the advent of Islam, people buried female babies alive…It was as normal for them as milking a cow…Yet, it was Islam that came in and taught them, that this is ‘bad’…People used to kill each other over petty things…Islam told them it was ‘bad’…

Thus, without the rules and definitions that religion set forth as being bad or good, the atheists themselves would never know what is ‘good’ or ‘bad’ or what is considered odious or what is are accepted as a whole…It is them knowing, what a majority of believe as being good or bad that even atheists now weigh their actions as being good or bad…

When we meet an atheist who is polite, helpful, generous, doesn’t steal or lies, we say, look, he is an atheist but how good he is…How do we know he is good? What is the standard by which we can say that, that atheist is a good person?

It is religion obviously…It is religion that tells us to be polite, to be helpful, to be generous and not to lie or steal…So, when a person does follow those principles set down by religion, it is the standard by which our society deems a person as worthy or unworthy, so as a result, even an atheist is indvertantly following the principles of religion to lead his life…So, when an atheist says, I don’t believe in religion, he is basically leading his life according to principles of a religion…

So basically, the more religious a person is, the more morals, manners, ethics, respect and peace he would have…Not just for the self but for others as well…

In the absence of faith, anything goes…

In my view, the war between faihfulness and faithlessness’ classic example would be the crucifiction of Christ…On one hand, we have a man, full of faith, who brings faith to the world being opposed by the faithless…The man’s honesty, his teachings, his faith are being opposed by the faithless so they can continue their repulsive habits…As a result, the lies and fabrications of the faithless overcame the truth, love and teachings of one of the most honourable man to walk the earth and he was supposedly crucified…

The faithless won…Through sheer lies and deception, the faithless were able to bring about the destruction of truth and in the end their own devastation…

Today, we see the same scenario being acted out in the form of western notion of ‘freedom, liberty and justice’ and what Islam considers its tenets…

Homosexuality, promiscuity, greed, avarice e.t.c. are all being promoted as freedoms of expression against what is considered taboo by religion specifically Islam…

Lies, twisted truths, propaganda, an entire campaign to malign the religion of Islam and its teachings is underway…That is why, even on GS, the mod-Muslims have outrightly expressed their acceptance of sins as ‘freedom of expressions’ and vehemently oppose the Shariah because the campaign against Islam will have its toll…People will reject Shariah because they are being taught to reject it…

Some will say, oh, this wouldn’t happen, I love Islam, no one can make me hate its teachings or make it look bad in my eyes, well, it’s happened before…Many of those thousands who loved the Christ, went to his teachings, followed him and wished to joing his cause were the same ones who later voted for him to be crucified over Barabas…All because of what? Because of subtle propaganda and a campaign against the Christ to malign him and make him look like the criminal instead of the victim by the elders of children of Israel…Even after witnessing his many miracles…

So, it’s really not that hard to make a Muslim hate Islam and the Muslim not knowing that he hates Islam…How else would you explain the rejection of Shariah by the very Muslims that are meant to implement it? How else would you explain Muslims maligning the laws of the very religion they were meant to uphold?

It’s all propaganda and subtle feeding of the mind…It can work wonders and has proven to be the case too…Hence, you have Muslims who despise those who work to establish Islam as backwards and ignorant people and wish to betray them for ‘liberty, justice and freedom’…

Going back to the topic, the moral and ethical aspect of any person’s life is not dictated by his goodness whether a religious person or an athest…He has to rely upon a standard and that standard is universal in all prevailing religions (except Hinduism)…

So whether anyone likes it or not, they are part of following a creed that decrees what is good and what is not…And it is religion…

Re: Atheists...

Prove to me that there is no God, give it a try!

Re: Atheists…

blah di blah :rolleyes:

Re: Atheists...

sure. lets go in steps.

step 1: defining the nature and origin of god, so that i can show you it doesnt exist.

going back to the question i raised before, could you tell me where you believe god to have come from?

Re: Atheists...

from them skies

Re: Atheists...

when i was younger my teacher asked us how rainbows were made, and i replied, "God made them, because God makes everything." But that was when i was young.. like 2 yrs ago

Re: Atheists…

Now you are wiser and know that water vapors acting as prisms form the rainbow…

Now you are grown up enough to think, who was it that gave the water vapors the quality to do what they do? Or is it a random act of nature?

Queer: Allah :swt: was never created, not born, not made…He was there from forever and will remain for forever…

Now you will say, it is impossible…For anything to exist it must have been created from something…

Answer to you is, for you, who cannot see the back of your own head without the help of two mirrors, the concept is beyond comprehension…You are limited to whatever that you are limited to and can never break beynd those boundaries…

It is like the ultimate question…What is life? Is a breathing, living human alive only because of something invisible present inside his body? What makes creation alive? What makes us living?

We don’t know that yet and here we are thinking if God exists or not…An infinite question for a finite mind…

Re: Atheists...

lajjo, now tell me why you have trouble with the idea that everything you see around you has been around forever and will remain forever as matter and energy (it needed no creator)?

you seem to be one happy camper with the idea that god can be that way.

Re: Atheists…

What is your basis for this? The most educated, wealthy and scientifically oriented group of people I know of is that of the Jews. I thought God was something they believed in.

As I said earlier, belief in God in both America and Israel ranges in the high 80 percents, whereas it is in the 40s for UK and europe. Clearly those two are much more successful than the latter. I dont see much correlation between success and Godlessness.

http://pewforum.org/docs/index.php?DocID=55
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1977/5/1977_5_4.shtml

Re: Atheists...


WWF's is having hard time finding the following species, they're queerious to know where they can find em:

African Elephant
African Wild Dog
American Alligator
Asian Elephant
Asian Lion
Atlantic Ridley
Atlantic Blue Salmon
Black-footed Ferret
Black Lemur
Bowhead Whale
Carolina Parakeet
Coelacanth
Dodo
Duckbill
Eastern Cougar
Eskimo Curlew
Florida Manatee
Galapagos Flightless Cormorant
Gaur
Gavial
Giant Anteater
Giant Armadillo
Giant Panda
Great Auk
Greater Prairie Chicken
Green Turtle
Grey Whale
Imperial Parrot
Indian Rhinoceros
Japanese Crested Ibis
Kagu
Kakapo
Leatherback Turtle
Loggerhead Turtle
Mediterranean Monk Seal
Monkey-eating Eagle
Mountain Gorilla
Passenger Pigeon
Peregrine
Piping Plover
Pronghorn Antelope
Przewalski's Horse
Pygmy Hippopotamus
Sei Whale
Shortnose Sturgeon
Snow Leopard
Takahé
Tapir
Trumpeter Swan
Vancouver Island Marmot
White Pelican
White Rhinoceros
White Elephant (not a phrase)
Whooping Crane
Wild Ass
Wild Yak

list goes on.... after few more years include your name on top of the list.
Oh no wait u can't do that
You'd be dead

Re: Atheists...

unfortunately evidence n data gathered till now suggests [ofcourse suggets not proves, but then we cant prove god exists and u cant prove god doesnt] that there WAS a beginning of time .

to discredit another human being,to highlight superiority of oneself,by watever means simply denotes insecurity.

Re: Atheists…

Are you saying finding Allah is as difficult as to finding African Elephant? I thought Elephants were more visible :confused:

Here, let me draw a cartoon for the elephant to illustrate how they are provable and you do the same in parallel. Fair?

PS.
You guys gotta be kidding me. You are giving Marx and others example to Lajjo to “prove something to him”??? You’re better off grind him off in the hatheelis and move on. What’s wrong with you guys? Someone who would know this sh!t won’t actually put the question they way lajjo does.

Re: Atheists...

Like it or not, whether you put your faith in a ‘religious model’ or a ‘scientific model’ created by the intellects of your fellow human beings, you are putting your faith in one basket or the other. Scientifically speaking or religiously, you don’t have answers to all your questions yet. Showing pity by either side for the other side is rather immature I’d say.

If you are a keen observer, it doesn’t take much to marvel at the miracles that are around you. Science only helps you appreciate it. For me, a lot of coincidences need to occur for us humans to live, grow and survive on this planet. Atheism is just too easy of a concept for it all to work so perfectly...Religion might be an even easier one but let's not try to reach quick conclusions and satisfy our intellects.

Re: Atheists…

sawal gandum aur jawab chana.

bhai, read what i asked once again. all the matter that have been part of the above list is still present in this very universe either as matter or energy. my question was, why is it so hard to believe in the permanence of matter and energy?

Re: Atheists…

thank you for writing the lines i highlighted above. just the conclusion i’d love to see more people arriving at.

ps: beginning of time yes, beginning of space-time, no/yes/maybe.

Re: Atheists...

most sensible post so far...the bottom line is...we don't know...we can't know...human knowledge is limited to the natrual world...it's almost impossible to come to any conclusions.

Re: Atheists...

time IS space time yaar.

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black footed ferret HAHAHA thats pretty funny

Re: Atheists...

hahah monkey hippopotamous, thats pretty funny too

Re: Atheists...

Fall off a cliff, you die. Nature sucks that way...but it's interesting how we don't consider that a punitive act. Perhaps because we don't anthropomorphise gravity...but that's not a satisfactory explanation when dealing with the all-powerful...