Asia Bibi's husbands open letter to Pakistani president

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Asia Bibi’s husbands open letter to Pakistani president

You’re kidding me!!

And such claims are actually held up incourt?

My Hindu friend and I just split an omelet.
:eek: I can’t even begin to phathom.

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Re: Asia Bibi’s husbands open letter to Pakistani president

Well , that was not The Logic… but feel free to think.

Not really “held up in court”, but the reasons behind why every now and then minorities (Christians/Hindus) are looked down upon, mob’ed to death and ‘blasphemized’.

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Re: Asia Bibi’s husbands open letter to Pakistani president

to be prefectly honest…those posters that are using the term “we” and are living abroad are less responsible for the heinous crimes that are committed against minorities in Pakistan than those who actually live there.
it is the citizens residing and voting in Pakistan that should be lumped into the collective “we” for if you do nothing to prevent these crimes then, by default, you are party to them.
you do not live in a vacuum…

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Re: Asia Bibi’s husbands open letter to Pakistani president

I don’t know who to call more impure…you, the now na-paak insaan, for cavorting with a hindu to the degree that you would share food with them or your friend for polluting his/her faith and consuming the egg…

:smack:

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Re: Asia Bibi’s husbands open letter to Pakistani president

:hehe:

Well lets leave that to Allah then who DOES know all.

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Re: Asia Bibi's husbands open letter to Pakistani president

If it is true that you and those posters using the term "WE" don't even want to live in Pakistan, what right do they have to represent and speak on behalf of the entire population of Pakistan & hold ALL of US living in Pakistan responsible when WE (Muslim Pakistanis living IN Pakistan) neither support those "heinous crimes against minorities" nor commit them???? You are all than worse than those JAHIL Pakistanis who are committing crimes against minorities of Pakistan because by speaking on behalf of entire population of Pakistan which comprises of people like US too by labelling yourselves as WE (Representing) because by doing that (excercising the right which you do not have) you are putting the blame on those Pakistanis who are NOT responsible for these crimes.

There are too many things in Pakistan that common Pakistanis like US do not have any control over and while we are responsible for our actions on a personal level, as that is what we will be accountable for before God, we (The Pakistanis living in Pakistan) neither speak on behalf of other Pakistanis living in Pakistan or even outside. But that does not mean WE SUPPORT such acts. So what you or other Pakistanis who have given up life in Pakistan are doing is no different than what those accusing the minorities of "blasphemy". You'll have NO RIGHT to represent yourselves as PAKISTANIS by using the term WE. Because your post has established the fact that THEY are NOT "WE" by ANY standard. Those Pakistanis NOT living in Pakistan to even represent those Pakistanis who SUPPORT such crimes.

And what WE (Speaking on behalf of those who do NOT support this) are doing to stop it is we discourage and KEEP AWAY from JAHIL people and do NOT support any acts of jahalat. As I said, WE will be accountable to God for our own actions and that is what matters to US. WE mai their speak on behalf of ALL the Pakistanis living in Pakistan (As WE realise we do not have that right despite LIVING IN Pakistan) not do we want Pakistanis or nonPakistanis to MISREPRESENT US (Pakistanus LIVING IN Pakistsn when they do not even hold that right of using the term WE for ALL of Pakistan.

maybe next time you guys can use basic sense of ethics and NOT speak on OUR behalf and lump us together with the ones RESPONSIBLE for such crimes. Hope it is not a rocket science to understand that you have no moral right of doing that because then there is no difference between you and the JAHIL population of Pakistan as both have no basic sense of morals and excersie a right which morally you DO NOT HAVE.

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Re: Asia Bibi's husbands open letter to Pakistani president

Sad that this is happening in Pakistan

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Re: Asia Bibi's husbands open letter to Pakistani president

There is too much mention of mayor of paris and too little of asia bibi herself. I wonder who wrote this letter for Ashiq.

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Re: Asia Bibi's husbands open letter to Pakistani president

Pakistan has sadly been a living hell for minorities as long as I can remember. Minorities are systematically harassed and kept at the very bottom of the society. At worst, atrocities are committed against them.

Pakistanis in Pakistan need to stand up against this injustice, and need to realise that all human beings are equals regardless of their religious beliefs.

Minorities are generally not treated well in muslim countries. Especially the religious minorities

The reason you see Pakistanis living in the west being so vocal against this injustice is because they live in societies where they are treated as equals, regardless of their national or religious background. As long as you stay on the right side of the law, the majority in the west don't care about your religious or national background.

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Re: Asia Bibi's husbands open letter to Pakistani president

lovely.....so when you can't address a point you resort to name-calling.
let's for a moment accept that you are correct and that nobody living outside of the nation should speak about the atrocities that are being committed there.
let's for a moment accept that every single person YOU know has had no hand in these crimes against humanity.

can you suggest a solution?
how do all of YOU, that aren't participating in these atrocities, stop them from happening in YOUR nation?
what level of responsibility do YOU accept and what are YOU doing to prevent the crimes?

or are you saying that since you are not party to the actions therefore you have no obligation to prevent them?

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Quoted for truth.

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Re: Asia Bibi's husbands open letter to Pakistani president

Wow, you have a 'like' there too. Either I am someone with above average intelligence or some posters here have below average that I have to keep repeating the same views in 5-10 posts but they still keep arguing and asking me the same questions which I already have answered. When you quote me, it is to show that you have read me then why repeat your questions? If you read again my post which you have quoted, then you would not have felt any need to write this new post or you just want to continue the argument in order to come across as someone "having a point".

If Im not wrong, this is going to be my 4th post in the thread. Im going to repeat my views with a hope this time they will be understood as I mean. See my answers in Blue.

lovely.....so when you can't address a point you resort to name-calling.

I need you to quote that part of my post where I have called you names. I do not recall calling you names nor do I find anywhere that I called you names after re-reading my post to you. If, by any chance, you are referring to me calling those people who cause such incidents of mistreating the minorities to happen JAHIL (IGNORANTS) then are you saying that they are NOT ignorant for doing what they're doing?????? So what are they if not IGNORANT? How is that NAME CALLING? Is that not what everyone with better understanding of Islam call them??? IGNORANT (JAHILS) because they dont know what the religion of Islam says about the minorities???? Then how is that NAME CALLING?

**If you are objecting to why I am COMPARING you with them and suggesting that COMPARISON is NAME CALLING. Then I would only say that this is what billysh!t does to your brain. This is why we have JAHIL (IGNORANT) 'muslims' and this is why we have people are incapable of understand simple things despite repeating for them several times. Because intelligence levels of normal humans drops down below 10 after they watch a single bollysh!t flick.**

let's for a moment accept that you are correct and that nobody living outside of the nation should speak about the atrocities that are being committed there.

**You said, "let's for a moment accept that you are correct and that nobody living outside of the nation should speak about the atrocities that are being committed there." Pay close attention to the red parts and most importantly underlined red parts of this post of mine. I need you to go back to my post and re-read exactly what I wrote. If you cannot, here Im pasting for you even though I hate dealing with kids pretending to be adults on online forums. I know it when I have to copy paste the same material for them as if explaining to 5-8 year olds. Anyway, here is what I said in my post number 19 which you quoted, "So STOP speaking on behalf of ALL the muslim population of Pakistan which includes people like us too." and in my post number 26 which you have quoted too, "....by speaking on behalf of entire population of Pakistan which comprises of people like US too by labeling yourselves as WE (Representing) because by doing that (exercising the right which you do not have)...You'll have NO RIGHT to represent yourselves as PAKISTANIS by using the term WE..... maybe next time you guys can use basic sense of ethics and NOT speak on OUR behalf ...."

Do you see above how you completely changed what I actually said by adding your, "...you are correct and that nobody living outside of the nation...."???? Where did I say in my above posts (which I have pasted again for you) what you have accused me of saying in your post??? To explain in simpler and with a variety of many more words, here is what I said:

1. RESIDENTS of PAKISTAN with a specific view over something happening in PAKISTAN should NOT speak ON BEHALF of the entire populations of MUSLIMS PAKISTANIS who live in Pakistan. Because by skipping out the opinion of people like US, they are representing a FALSE picture of the Pakistanis living in Pakistan. So while they're free to say whatever they want on their own responsibility as Pakistanis on a personal level, they can NOT and must NOT claim to be representing the ENTIRE Pakistani nation and the people living in this country.

2. In post number 26, after you made clear that those posters above who are REPRESENTING and speaking ON BEHALF OF all the Pakistanis LIVING INSIDE Pakistan do not even LIVE in Pakistan, I said that such Pakistanis LIVING ABROAD and claiming that they represent the views of all the communities living inside Pakistan and ACCEPT THE BLAME of the sins which are neither committed, nor supported by word or action by muslim Pakistanis LIKE US have absolutely NO RIGHT to REPRESENT, SPEAK ON BEHALF OF ALL the Pakistanis living in Pakistan because by doing that they are MISREPRESENTING the Pakistani muslim communities living in Pakistan. If they want to give an opinion as people with their origins tracing back to Pakistan or generally on humanitarian or moral ground, say that this is morally wrong because Islam does not allow mistreatment of minorities. Then I would not object to it. But when they're using the term "WE" for describing, misrepresenting, WRONGLY accepting the blame on OUR (Various muslim communities living in Pakistan) behalf & while completely discarding US and OUR VIEWS and tell the world on social media that they represent PAKISTANI RESIDENTS then as a muslim Pakistani living in Pakistan, I have every right to object to that. Because NON-PAKISTANI or NON-RESIDENT Pakistanis have NO RIGHT speak ON OUR BEHALF & MISREPRESENT US because that is also MORALLY WRONG.

Do you see now what I actually said in my post? The people of the world, people with Pakistani origins, muslims or non muslims of the world, Pakistanis living abroad, Pakistanis living in Pakistan... every one is entitled to their own opinions and have every right to express it whether for or against a certain incident which takes place in Pakistan. But they do NOT have any RIGHT to REPRESENT and speak ON BEHALF OF ALL THE PAKISTANI COMMUNITIES LIVING IN PAKISTAN ESPECIALLY because most NON-JAHIL, EDUCATED and those with a better knowledge about Islam do NOT commit, encourage, support by word or action or even relate to such incidents. Am I making sense to you so far??? I hope you're not going to come around with another repetitive post like vroom just because your bollysh!t influenced brain is unable to 'get it'.
**

let's for a moment accept that every single person YOU know has had no hand in these crimes against humanity.

You said, "let's for a moment accept...". Those words alone show that you do not believe when I say I or my close and distant family do not discriminate based on religion. Sure we dont eat with those minorities working for us together on the same dining table just like we dont eat with the muslim labor working for us because we dont meet them socially. But we do not mistreat them or differentiate because they follow another religion. However, when the only time we prefer muslims is when we have to give out ZAKAT as that is preferred to be given out to muslims in need FIRST. So by writing those words, you are showing that you do not trust what I said. If you're a muslim, that mistrust could come only if what I said is new to you, your household, your family and you yourself discriminate against nonmuslim minorities. Otherwise I dont see why the mistrust. If you're a nonmuslim living abroad, then that mistrust on what I said is understandable for not having come across muslims who do not discriminate.

can you suggest a solution?

Now you're looking up to me for a solution? For that, you did not need to cause all the drama above, blame game, accusations, mistrust on my words as being a muslim Pakistani. And if you had really read my posts which you have quoted too, I did suggest a solution too to the OP when he brought in the 'constitution' part to the discussion. If you're going to tell me that you did not read the solution I suggested then I would suggest you to skip watching bollysh!t flicks for over a year. Once your brain starts to function normally then go back and read my posts again, understand them first before responding again asking me the same questions over and over. Because when I type here, I expect adults to understand me clearly as they have a chance to read my posts as many times as they want. It's not like conversating where you say things once and the words are not recorded and there is a chance to misunderstand or forget what the other person said. Here everything we type is visible and available to re-read as many times as possible. So there is no excuse of "missing to read" or "forgot what you said". So it gets extremely frustrating to re-type what you have typed once.

how do all of YOU, that aren't participating in these atrocities, stop them from happening in YOUR nation?
what level of responsibility do YOU accept and what are YOU doing to prevent the crimes?

or are you saying that since you are not party to the actions therefore you have no obligation to prevent them?

All of the above accusations again are asking me to repeat what I already made clear in my earlier post but I will do this again now with a variety of more words. From, "...YOUR nation..." in your post, Im guessing that you're asking as a random non-Pakisani or non-muslim or non-resident of Pakistan. So which one are you? Non-Pakistani, Non-muslim or Non-Resident Pakistani? If you can clarify that, it will be easier for me to address your conerns about "...MY nation..." as you see, there are too many trolls on the internet forums and social media who pretend to be Pakistanis OR muslims or BOTH but they're not. So if you clarify that you're asking as a non-resident Pakistani or as a non-resident non muslim Pakistani or if you're not even a Pakistani but just taking interest in this discussion just to support and bash ALL the Pakistanis like OP who's speaking on behalf of Pakistanis; while he is not even living in Pakistan; through this unfortunate incident against the christian family.

****To answer rest of the allegations in your remaining post, I would again repeat what I already said in my earlier posts. We DISCOURAGE such acts by NOT being a part of it, by NOT encouraging such cruel acts by word or action, by KEEPING AWAY from the JAHIL (IGNORANT) muslims, by renouncing such acts or personal, social level, praying to God to help serve justice so that no* innocent** Pakistanis from the minorities are targeted in the name of Islam, by not mistreating them ourselves whereever, whenever we have to deal with them, by treating them with the same rights as prescribed in the Quran & sunnah. That is how we do our part "to prevent them".**

Living in a country like Pakistan which is targeted and controlled by gog and magog through their local agents from the economic to social to legal to religious system is not easy especially when the media is also controlled to spread the spiritual ills instead of purity of the soul, minds, hearts and the real facts. So in a dajjalic system like this, how we deal with minorities on a personal level also requires an ability to understand things as they are and not be driven by the impulses and trends, an effort to be just. That in itself is a 'fight' with satanic temptations and those herding us like sheeps.

So unless (Incase you're a muslim), you yourself give a better treatment to the minorities of your own country (Incase you're a non-Pakistani) as WE do (Which we really do even if you dont trust what I say) or are doing something MORE than that in preventing such unfortunate incidents, you have no right to attack and blame those muslim communities in Pakistan which do NOT support or encourage such incidents in anyway.

Hope I have addressed your concerns and quote and re-address me only if you have fully understood my post and are not asking me something which I have already explained in my last 5 posts in this thread. Because to repeat to explain one point in different 10 or more different ways or similar ways can be extremely frustrating for any normal person.***

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Re: Asia Bibi's husbands open letter to Pakistani president

Pakistan - Everyone is talking about what hell of a place it is for minorities and so many threads on that subject. But I wish to inquire about this part of your post. I thought it was only Pakistan. So there are other muslim countries also where religious minorities are not treated well? Can you name those countries? Do answer. Wish to gain from your knowledge.

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Re: Asia Bibi's husbands open letter to Pakistani president

If you are geniunely interested in knowing how (religious) minorities are generally treated as second class citizens in most muslim countries, then all you need to do is research the subject. Information on it is not hard to find.

As for what common pakistanis can do to prevent atrocities against religious minorities, is to actually stand up against the injustice. Just not practising it, nor encouraging it, and praying for a change is not going to bring any change in the attitude of most Pakistanis.

You need to take a stand on behalf of your non-muslim Pakistani brethren. If most Pakistanis actually were against these atrocities commited in the name of protecting the honour of god and the prophet, they would have taken a stand against it.

The sentiments of the mobs are the sentiments of the majority. Why do you think Mumtaz Qadri hasnt been hanged yet? He represents the thoughts of the common Pakistani. Religious dogma comes before reason.

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Re: Asia Bibi’s husbands open letter to Pakistani president

@Balthier

May I ask if you’re a muslim Pakistani living in Pakistan or abroad, a nonmuslim Pakistani living abroad, a muslim from some other country or a nonmuslim / athiest from some other country?, If you’re a resident or non-resident muslim Pakistani, may I ask you YOU have practically done about the issue?

And you completely ignored my question to you in the last post. I asked:

*Can you name those muslim countries where as per you religious minorities are not treated well?

*Again, I did not ask HOW they’re treated in Pakistan or other muslim countries because “Not well” will include a wide category of mistreatment and dont want to drail this topic. Just want to know the names of those muslim countries (Other than Pakistan offcourse as Pakistan is always in the news for this reason so we all know about Pakistan) WRT your quoted post below. And I am asking because I really am not aware. Is it Banglasedh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Palestine, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt??? Where??? Cant you just name which muslim countries those are to make my search easier???

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Re: Asia Bibi's husbands open letter to Pakistani president

^^^ Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Egypt, etc.

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No real idea how Asia bibi was accused of the blasphemy, but it is far fetched that it would be drinking a glass of water. :smack:

What Sady is saying that people who do not want to even live in Pakistan should not generalize ALL Pakistanis… and place them in one big bag marked as “Bad Pakistanis”… and beat them with sticks every morning and night…and between. :slight_smile:

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If that happens then unfortunately his fate would not be different from that of Salman Taseer .

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Exactly. There’s alot more to every news (especially of this nature) that we are fed by the media than what we are told. The real truth is always hidden. The family is targeted to reach some political agenda while the blasphemy card is being used.

And what Im saying is that while expressing their views, the resident or non-resident muslim Pakistanis should clarify that they are speaking for themselves instead of speaking on behalf of all the Pakistani population. Because obviously their own beliefs do not represent all the Pakistani communities. Secondly, those muslim converted atheists non-resident Pakistanis and other non-muslim, non-Pakistani posters here clearly are here on a mission to use such incidents for exploitation of minds further on social media. What’s their agenda only they know… especially when they take so much interest in generalizing bashing Pakistanis just for being Pakistanis regardless of their views while pretending to be Pakistanis themselves (not make it known if they’re Pakistanis or not even when asked).

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If it's about something more than a glass of water, guaranteed that truth would have come out by now, there are enough gossips around in Pakistan to leak the 'truth' to the media.

The simple truth is that some jaahil woman accused another woman of drinking from the same water source, and all hell broke loose because these are villagers who really actually believe that a hindu or Christian woman drinking from your village well will give everyone the plague, and then on top of it you have local mullahs who don't put an end to this, and if anything, may actually encourage these ideas.

It's 2014, how the heck have the basics of Islam not been taught to these villagers? Because there is a saudi-funded mullah mafia interested in keeping us in the dark ages and instead of booting these rats out, we welcome them with open arms.

Shame on the leaders of that village for allowing such crap to even happen.