Yeah, but these people in the FATA area feel as much Pakistanis as I feel Icelandic. Ideally, they should have their own country, and Pakistan should let them worry about their own matters, internal and external.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
Yeah, but these people in the FATA area feel as much Pakistanis as I feel Icelandic. Ideally, they should have their own country, and Pakistan should let them worry about their own matters, internal and external.
[/QUOTE]
very interesting... Have you ever been to FATA? How many tribesmen did you meet there who uttered you their wish for a separate country? And would you please elaborate why should they have their own separate country? I'm sorry to be asking too many questions.
Thanx in advance for your reply.
No Shawaiz, he just conducted a “Madhanee Special Jirga” where the maliks and other elders all personally came and delivered their opinion 
Originally posted by camouflage: *
**Their faith doesn't allow them to have multiple masters, maybe yours does.*
Okay so now we are playing "kick out of daira-e-islam" ..wehen all else fails people use this :)
As I stated before, your pals had no problems when their masters told them whatthey wanted to hear :)
*To accuse them of obeying "your" masters is a mistake on your part, they were seeking the pleasure of Allah swt then and their objective may well be the same now. *
and the in-fighting afterwards between the diff groups and their supporters, that was seeking the pleasure of Allah too?
They did nto care then what US policy in palestine was, or anything. As long as it helped their cause they were ore than happy to use US weapons, training and expertise.
Now when things are not going there way, US is bad, pakistan is bad, mickey mouse and 7up is bad, everyone is bad but them. right
*To answer your question about US and Pak not being bad then but now, it proves that they are not misguided or insane, they were against oppressors then and they are against oppressors now, whether it be the Soviets, the Americans or the hypocrite's. *
and i can use the same logic and say that Pakistan or US were against oppressors (i.e. soviets) then and are against oppressores (terrorists) now. There are more than one way to spin that argument.
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *
*at last it happened...this is what we were waiting for. *
seemed like you were looking forward to teh chitrol of tribals :)
this is what someone kill own people for infdles...if they (Pashtuns) were so dear to Pakistan then they would not have done the unxpected.
lets spin the argument arouind, if pakistn and pakistanis were so dear to these tribals, they would not have bet teh country's wellbeing on protecting some foriegn psychos.
if pashtins were so dear to pashtuns, they would not have been killing each other in afghanistan :)
nwayz its clear that HISTORY will repeat itself, inshallah they will rise up as one and teach an Impressive lesson which wuld eventually be a lesson for their future generation aswell.
The 100 yard dash lesson while wearing burqaas? that was kinda impressive
Hopefully the lesson they can teach is that they can progress, get out of their tribal ways and join the current millenium
*Long Live The Afghan Pride! *
may they get some sense and logic along with "pride"
Fraudia, just as a side note, your spelling has really gone downhill lately.
yeah using a laptop these days..typos galore
Funny,
Yesterday they reported that an attack was going to start at dawn, but virtually no new news today?
What are the news channels saying in Pakistan?
Anybody else find this a little odd? Granted whoever they have got is going to hunker down like in Maz-eSharif in Afghanistan, but there has been very little news flow....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Am I talking about the current government? I asked you about the period between the fall of the Najibullah regime in 1992 and before the WTC attacks in 2001. Tens of thousands of Afghans were killed in the unending civil war in that peiod, in bitter fighting between the various Afghan groups.
So who do you think killed tens of thousands of Afghans/Muslims between 1992 and 2001? Once you answer that then lecture us in Islamic brotherhood...
[/QUOTE]
I know exactly what you asked, and as I mentioned, my response is already posted in one of my earlier posts. I have already answered your question.
Media blackout OG...the scale of the troop deployments been huge though..checkpoints every mile. Also one thing similar to the previous battles like Tora Bora..despite claims of killing xyz number of "suspected terrorists" it's not reflected in actual body bags.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Fraudz: *
*Originally posted by camouflage: *
**Their faith doesn't allow them to have multiple masters, maybe yours does.*
Okay so now we are playing "kick out of daira-e-islam" ..wehen all else fails people use this :)
As I stated before, your pals had no problems when their masters told them whatthey wanted to hear :)
*To accuse them of obeying "your" masters is a mistake on your part, they were seeking the pleasure of Allah swt then and their objective may well be the same now. *
and the in-fighting afterwards between the diff groups and their supporters, that was seeking the pleasure of Allah too?
They did nto care then what US policy in palestine was, or anything. As long as it helped their cause they were ore than happy to use US weapons, training and expertise.
Now when things are not going there way, US is bad, pakistan is bad, mickey mouse and 7up is bad, everyone is bad but them. right
*To answer your question about US and Pak not being bad then but now, it proves that they are not misguided or insane, they were against oppressors then and they are against oppressors now, whether it be the Soviets, the Americans or the hypocrite's. *
and i can use the same logic and say that Pakistan or US were against oppressors (i.e. soviets) then and are against oppressores (terrorists) now. There are more than one way to spin that argument.
[/QUOTE]
This is a fact which you keep ignoring, either you follow Islam completely or you don't, most of what you are saying has no basis in Islam, so whether you use the same same logic its not going to make what you are saying right.
You may be right in the eyes of many people but to Muslims right is only that which is right according to Islam.
The infighting declined, and having control of 95% of Afghanistan is proof for that.
And I asked you to define "terrorist", maybe you overlooked that post.
Zakk,
Granted the region is remote, but news services can transmit from anywhere, and this is an uber-huge story. All day long officials are talking down expectations, but you know they are frothing at the mouth.
Yesterday the AP reports from no less than 4 high level Pakistani sources that Alzwahiri was among those trapped, today, no one is saying a thing. me thinks the initial reports were probably correct, but they are downplaying the possbilities so that if there is a failure, that Mushi will not be embarrassed.
This thing could take a long time, while thousands of troops are assembled, and that is probably the best course anyway. I suspect this will be like Maz-esharif, and that the battle will go on for days, until the last man.
Just strange that there is almost nothing coming out for 24 hours.
When a BBC correspondent asked the Pakistan informaiton minister Sheikh Rasheed about the possible presence of any major al-quaida member in Waziristan he replied " All what I know is that terrorists are fighting ferociously which makes me believe they are defending a high-ranking al-quaida member". The president who always find time to give an interview to CNN said; "Pakistani forces encountered fierce resistance-a sign that a high value target was being protected". American experts say that the al-quaida always fight to the last man, even the highly trained and best equiped american forces took two weeks to finish the battle in Tora Bora. Well, the fierce fighting doesn't mean the presence of a high-ranking al-quaida member, like Al-Zawahiri.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by camouflage: *
I know exactly what you asked, and as I mentioned, my response is already posted in one of my earlier posts. I have already answered your question.
[/QUOTE]
Do tell us exactly in which post in you addressed the point of Afghan groups, including the Taliban killing tens of thousands of their own people i.e. Muslims in nearly a decade of civil war between 1992 and 2001? Did you ever lecture these people about following Islam completely
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Do tell us exactly in which post in you addressed the point of Afghan groups, including the Taliban killing tens of thousands of their own people i.e. Muslims in nearly a decade of civil war between 1992 and 2001? Did you ever lecture these people about following Islam completely
[/QUOTE]
Taliban were not responsible for all of the people that died during the civil war, they did their best to end the civil war and succeeded to a large extent.
The post in which I quoted a verse from the Quran and the one after it should answer your question.
About lecturing these people, well I personally didn't, but I am aware of scholars from Pakistan who did advise them on many occasions and these people never opinionated if daleel from Quran and Sunnah was provided, they humbly submitted. I hope you are not rating them as if they were Prophets, it seems to me that anyone who speaks about Islam should be rated as if he were a Prophet.
These people never tried to find loop holes in Islam, like our leaders, whose only objective is to twist Quran and Hadeeth to suit their whims and desires.
camouflage, you are wasting your time bro. Just do a search on Taliban in these forums and check out all the posts that are at least a year old to see that many of the people now who are against Taliban used to flunt them and cheer them.
At that time no one cared for civil war and people dying at the hands of the Talibs.
Malik bhaaaai was a stunch supportie.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sultan Suri: *
camouflage, you are wasting your time bro. Just do a search on Taliban in these forums and check out all the posts that are at least a year old to see that many of the people now who are against Taliban used to flunt them and cheer them.
At that time no one cared for civil war and people dying at the hands of the Talibs.
Malik bhaaaai was a stunch supportie.
[/QUOTE]
Thanx brother.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by camouflage: *
*Taliban were not responsible for all of the people that died during the civil war, they did their best to end the civil war and succeeded to a large extent. *
[/QUOTE]
Yes, but is it not true that various Afghan groups spent almost a decade after 1992, killing tens of thousands of their fellow Afghans/Muslims? It is interesting that when people accuse Pakistani leaders of being traitors and lesser Muslims, etc, that they conveniently forget these facts.
In recent years we have all been able to learn more about the overall realities of Afghanistan, and how the Afghan peoples share considerable blame for the state their nation is in today. I think they should start looking at the grave and bloody mistakes they have made, especially after the end of the jihad against communists in 1992, before blaming others.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Yes, but is it not true that various Afghan groups spent almost a decade after 1992, killing tens of thousands of their fellow Afghans/Muslims? It is interesting that when people accuse Pakistani leaders of being traitors and lesser Muslims, etc, that they conveniently forget these facts.
In recent years we have all been able to learn more about the overall realities of Afghanistan, and how the Afghan peoples share considerable blame for the state their nation is in today. I think they should start looking at the grave and bloody mistakes they have made, especially after the end of the jihad against communists in 1992, before blaming others.
[/QUOTE]
Well said Malik, I bet given the chance both groups Talibs and the drug lords from the north will be back to where they were when the Russkies left not that the fighting is not going on. But I would still support Taliban not because they are any good but because they are lesser of the two evil.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Yes, but is it not true that various Afghan groups spent almost a decade after 1992, killing tens of thousands of their fellow Afghans/Muslims? It is interesting that when people accuse Pakistani leaders of being traitors and lesser Muslims, etc, that they conveniently forget these facts.
In recent years we have all been able to learn more about the overall realities of Afghanistan, and how the Afghan peoples share considerable blame for the state their nation is in today. I think they should start looking at the grave and bloody mistakes they have made, especially after the end of the jihad against communists in 1992, before blaming others.
[/QUOTE]
Well, if it were the various Afghan groups that were fighting with each other, and Taliban tried their best to end the ongoing conflict and also succeeded to an extent, then it only proves that the objective of the Taliban was to bring stability to Afghanistan.
You can not escape from the fact that the Taliban sincerely tried to implement Shariah and all that they did was ask for proof before they would accept news from fasiq's which is what Islam teaches us, and that is exactly what the US is to them, a fasiq, I don't need to go in detail to prove that, the Iraqi invasion, the WMD's.
Tell me what is it that Pakistani leaders have done which might prove that they are sincere Muslims? Nothing, in fact all that they have done only proves that they are doing what according to Islam is hypocrisy.