Appalling lies told about Iraq and terrible mistakes committed (MERGED)

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
41

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ZulfiOKC: *
My voice, the reply I posted earlier is a step by step procedure. I feel the moment the American administration stops supporting the despotic regimes in the Arab world, these regimes would be instantly overthrown by the Muslim radical groups, who by the way, do enjoy the mass support among not only Arabs, but also among Muslims in general, specially after the 9-11(The Americans would love this part, since they will be helping, in bringing true democracy in the region);). The Americans, by this point now, don’t need to worry about the Muslim radicals taking control over KSA, Kuwait, and some other places, because remember, the Americans have already left the region, and have already adopted a balanced approach towards the Muslims and the Jews, hence no more anti-Americanism.
Now assuming that all this have already happened in the Gulf region, in my opinion, it should not take more then two weeks for the Muslim radicals to accomplish the over throwing of the despotic governments in their respective countries, OIC, Arab league, and the GCC have been cleansed of the Al-Sabah family, Al-Saud family and the other ruler families. All these three organs, and specially the Arab league and the GCC, will be represented by their own people. Also, if you don’t like my approach of handing over Iraq to the GCC or the Arab league because you don’t like to see the al-Sabah family and al-Saud family over thrown for Lord knows whatever reason, then the next best possible solution is to hand over the Arab country of Iraq to the OIC, which is run by progressive and moderate states like Pakistan, Malaysia, Turkey and few more states.
[/QUOTE]

I could almost agree with you. Cept for Israel.

If the Arab world could adopt a balance approach toward Israel. America could adopt a balanced ideal toward middle-east peace I think.

Now think before you speak.

Imagine.

Saudi in chaos, Kuwait in chaos, Baharin in chaos. Omar in chaos. And the rest of those little countries, all in chaos.

Imagine the chaos killing civilians. A dollup of mass murder on a daily basis.

No western intervention allowed. (period)

Would that make the world a safer and better place?

42

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ZulfiOKC: *
My voice, the reply I posted earlier is a step by step procedure. I feel the moment the American administration stops supporting the despotic regimes in the Arab world, these regimes would be instantly overthrown by the Muslim radical groups, who by the way, do enjoy the mass support among not only Arabs, but also among Muslims in general, specially after the 9-11(The Americans would love this part, since they will be helping, in bringing true democracy in the region);). The Americans, by this point now, don’t need to worry about the Muslim radicals taking control over KSA, Kuwait, and some other places, because remember, the Americans have already left the region, and have already adopted a balanced approach towards the Muslims and the Jews, hence no more anti-Americanism.
Now assuming that all this have already happened in the Gulf region, in my opinion, it should not take more then two weeks for the Muslim radicals to accomplish the over throwing of the despotic governments in their respective countries, OIC, Arab league, and the GCC have been cleansed of the Al-Sabah family, Al-Saud family and the other ruler families. All these three organs, and specially the Arab league and the GCC, will be represented by their own people. Also, if you don’t like my approach of handing over Iraq to the GCC or the Arab league because you don’t like to see the al-Sabah family and al-Saud family over thrown for Lord knows whatever reason, then the next best possible solution is to hand over the Arab country of Iraq to the OIC, which is run by progressive and moderate states like Pakistan, Malaysia, Turkey and few more states.
[/QUOTE]

I could almost agree with you. Cept for Israel.

If the Arab world could adopt a balance approach toward Israel. America could adopt a balanced ideal toward middle-east peace I think.

Now think before you speak.

Imagine.

Saudi in chaos, Kuwait in chaos, Baharin in chaos. Omar in chaos. And the rest of those little countries, all in chaos.

Imagine the chaos killing civilians. A dollup of mass murder on a daily basis.

No western intervention allowed. (period)

Do you think chaos would end in a good way?

Bring in Lebonon, Somalia, Nigerian fighters and politicians.

Better yet..bring back Saddam Hussian, Komeni and Muammar Gaddafi.

If U.S. copletely retreated from the Mid-East? Who? and what ? if any tyype of freedom would the people be gaining?

I guess I am asking who and what and how? What leader is ready to listen to the majority people there? What person is ready to meet the needs? And provide security?

43

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
Great article. Thanks for posting.

**

So you don't take offense at the fact that you, and the rest of us, were sold a lie by two democratic governments - that innocent civilians were killed, and are being killed, based upon the foundation of a lie?
[/QUOTE]

I am completely offended by the lies exposed.

I have said from the start and I stay that way that I will not vote for any person involved in granting GBJ ultimate powers of decision. Because I blame the entire government for what is happening and what has happend.

Any democrat that uses the excuse that GBJ lied, yet still stood with his decisions lost my vote. And that is the majority of candidites.

I cannot vote for a person who decided Yes with the president of my country and then trys sto spin.

Believe it or not. I know who they are and how they voted on issues.

Mayhap I have been the only one paying attention.

Oh well, that congress lost my vote.

I am hoping that the rest of Americans are paying attention also.

Right now at this moment I am sickend by the entire mass of government and the wannabes.

Either you believe in an issue or you don't.

44

*Lynch told ABC’s Diane Sawyer that she was never mistreated and that a nurse even sang to her. Two days before the “rescue” Dr. Harith a-Houssona arranged for an ambulance to return Lynch to the Americans, but the army opened fire forcing it to return to the hospital, so Lynch could be “rescued.” *

Jeez, that shows the level of desperation amongst the US military occupation regime in Iraq, that it has to shoot at it's own people...

45

The Democrats are demanding a congressional investigation into the Bush Adminstration’s claims about WMD in Iraq.

Critics want probe of why Iraq weapons intelligence was so far off](http://www.ktvotv3.com/Global/story.asp?S=1619394) KTVO VO3

Washington-AP – President Bush’s Iraq War critics are demanding a congressional probe of how U-S intelligence on Saddam Hussein’s weapons was so far off the mark. And some Democrats think the investigation should see if the administration twisted the material to suit its own ends.The critics point to David Kay’s conclusion that it’s unlikely Saddam had any banned stockpiles when the war began. Kay quit as head of the Iraq Survey Group last week.

Michigan Senator Carl Levin says those weapons were a chief reason the president gave for going to war, adding, “It is incredible – it cannot be allowed to just stand that way.” Asked about Kay’s comments, Bush told reporters U-S experts are still looking in Iraq – but he stands by his decision to go to war.

46

Look at the liars now trying to pin all the blame on "faulty" intelligence, now that the chickens have come home to roost? One can now rightly question any and all US-UK intellignece and government claims from now on.

47

On virtually every single important claim made by the Bush Administration in its case for war, there was serious dissension. Discordant views - not from individual analysts but from several intelligence agencies as a whole - were kept from the public as momentum was built for a congressional vote on the war resolution.

How Bush misled the world](How Bush misled the world) The Age, Australia 06 Feb 04

The United States intelligence services didnot fail on Iraq - it was the Administration that failed, writes Sidney Blumenthal.

Before he departed on his quest for Saddam Hussein’s fabled weapons of mass destruction last June, David Kay, chief of the Iraq Survey Group, told friends that he expected promptly to find the cause of the pre-emptive war. But on January 28, Kay appeared before the US Senate to testify that there were no WMDs. “It turns out that we were all wrong,” he said. President Bush, he added helpfully, was misinformed by the whole intelligence community which, like Kay, made assumptions that turned out to be false.

Within days, Bush declared that he would, after all, appoint a commission to investigate. Kay’s testimony was the catalyst for this U-turn, but only one of his claims is correct: that he was wrong. The truth is that much of the intelligence community did not fail, but presented correct assessments and warnings, that were overridden and suppressed. …

48

"It turns out that we were all wrong"

Well Bush the liar and the man responsible for the kilings of 10,000 Iraqi civilians is calling everyone, but himself a liar...

49

Well more comments on the lies and the liers - hey but we’re democracies and there’s a big difference between lying democracies and lying dictatorships. Actually there is: lying dictatorships are wysiwyg (what you see is what you get), lying democracies are wysinwyg (what you see is NOT what you get) and therefore far more insidious. Compare Soviet era press - you KNEW it was controlled - with the “free” press - you THINK it is free and so gobble it all up.

"…The premise for this war was not security but politics - and it is our politicians who should be in the dock
…
Let’s leave aside for a moment the value system of a government that can order an immediate inquiry into a bare breast and take a year to launch one into a bare-faced lie presented as a pretext for war. For there is a far more important principle at hand than the US government’s calibration of indecency.
At best somewhere along the way on Super Bowl night there was an unfortunate mistake, either individual or systemic. At worst, and more likely, this was a cynical, tasteless publicity stunt. Either way it was wrong, and Michael Powell is going to make sure that whoever is responsible will pay the price.

Hold that thought. Now cast your mind back to the United Nation’s security council chamber a year ago last Friday. With the help of tapes, aerial photographs and a PowerPoint presentation, Michael Powell’s father, Colin, illustrates the US government’s case that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. Jabbing the air and slapping the table, he offers “not assertions, but facts” and “evidence, not conjecture”.

Colin Powell’s “evidence” and “facts” have been proven to be not only “assertions” and “conjecture”, but erroneous ones at that. But one year, one war, no UN resolution and thousands of deaths later, we are still waiting for someone to pay the price for a conflict that never needed to start and sparked a resistance that shows no sign of ending.
…
Sadly the inquiries to be launched in Britain and the US have been limited to intelligence. The premise for this war was not security but politics - it’s the politicians who should be in the dock.

The fact that they will not be reflects badly not just on the governments concerned but on all of us. If a country can be led to war on false pretexts and there are no substantive consequences as a result, there is something seriously wrong with both politicians and the political culture that produces them. In a democracy worthy of the name, if the machinery of government cannot call those responsible to account, civil society and the ballot box must.
This war is not just killing Iraqi civilians, resistance fighters and coalition soldiers. It’s murdering any pretence that we live in countries that value, let alone practice, the principle of democratic accountability. It calls into question our ability to rein in political excess and to root out state-sponsored incompetence.
…
Two different US panels concluded in 1998 that there was no hard evidence of secret weapons programmes. The first, the arms control and non-proliferation advisory board, consisted of eminent scientists. It found the CIA’s intelligence mostly speculative. “There were suspicions, hints, but nothing hard,” one member told Newsweek. The second was led by none other than Rumsfeld and reached similar conclusions.

That was precisely why the UN sent in inspectors - to ascertain if there was any substance to these suspicions. For most of the world - including most US citizens - ignorance was a reason to wait and see. Left to his own devices, Hans Blix would have told us through peaceful means what we now know as a result of war and occupation - that there are no WMD.
…"

50

Colin Powell's "evidence" and "facts" have been proven to be not only "assertions" and "conjecture", but erroneous ones at that.

That's what many of us said so in this forum - hate to say told you so. :)

51

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Malik73: *
*"It turns out that we were all wrong"**

Well Bush the liar and the man responsible for the kilings of 10,000 Iraqi civilians is calling everyone, but himself a liar...
[/QUOTE]

If he had little shame "IT" would just disappear like Hitler never to be seen again... But then that is one attribute which will disqualify you from presidency.

52

More lies and spin from Bush and his gang. Its getting absolutely hilarious now, they are trying to crawl out of existing lies by using more lies. :nook:

HIGHTOWER: WMD Lies Spinning Out of Control](Alternet.org) Alertnet, 09 Feb 04

**If you’ve ever seen a big washing machine go into its spin cycle, you have some idea of how fast the Bushiites are spinning the truth as they try to launder their story on those missing Weapons of Mass Destruction, which they insisted only a year ago that Saddam Hussein had and was prepared to fling at America. After months of scouring Iraq to find WMDs, Bush’s own chief weapons hunter has resigned, declaring that he doesn’t think they existed.**So – spin, spin, spin – the new line is that well, OK, Saddam didn’t actually have the weapons, but he was well on his way to making them.

**George himself, in his state-of-the-union dance, used this new spin referring to “weapons-of-mass-destruction-related- program-activities.” Never has a president used so many hyphens in a single phrase! Dick Cheney even slouched out to insist that two flatbed trucks found in the desert were mobile biological weapons labs, giving “conclusive proof” that Saddam had an active WMD program. Alas, the chief weapons inspector shot that ludicrous idea down, too, saying that those trucks were only making hydrogen for weather balloons. **

Then came spinmistress, Condi Rice, Bush’s top security advisor, asserting that because of Saddam’s devilish secrecy,“you’re never going to be able to be positive” about whether he had WMDs. But, Condi – you, George, Cheney, Rummy, and all the rest told the world last year that you were “absolutely positive!”

Next was Bush’s PR flack Scott McClellan, who went into reverse spin, claiming that Bush never said that Saddam posed an “imminent threat” but only a"growing" one. **Hogwash, Scott – George even warned us of the specter of “mushroom clouds” rising over our country. Bizarrely, in his state-of-the-union speech, George W even blurted out that, “No one can now doubt the word of America.” Come one, George, we cant even figure out what your word is! Maybe all that spinning has made you dizzy. **

53

If you've ever seen a big washing machine go into its spin cycle, you have some idea of how fast the Bushiites are spinning the truth as they try to launder their story on those missing Weapons of Mass Destruction...

What a fitting analogy. But if these war criminals who waged a war based on total lies are not stopped, then tens of thousands of more Iraqi civilians will be killed, as they have been by the US military over the last year.

54

The majority of Americans now think that the Iraq war was unjustified. :k:

‘Most Americans Believe Bush Lied About Wmd’](http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2530021) Scotsman, 13 Feb 04

A majority of Americans now believe that President George Bush lied or deliberately exaggerated evidence about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction in the run up to war, a poll found today.The results of the Washington Post/ABC News poll also showed declining support for the war and for the President himself. Some 54% of respondents said they thought Mr Bush exaggerated or lied about the threat posed by Iraq in the weeks and months before the war.

55

NEW YORK (AFP) - **A US business group that monitors federal spending took out a full-page advert in The New York Times, likening President George W. Bush (news - web sites) to a corrupt chief executive officer who has forfeited public trust. **

Timed to coincide with the weekend anniversary of the US-led war against Iraq (news - web sites), the advertisement – paid for by Business Leaders for Sensible Priorities – said Bush’s case for invasion “was built entirely out of falsehoods.” Highlighting the cost of the war in terms of hundreds of US casualties and tens of billions of dollars, the ad said the “state-sponsored deception” underpinning the conflict dwarfed the damage caused by the series of corporate scandals that recently rocked Wall Street. …

US business group slams Bush ‘deception’ over Iraq war](Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More) Yahoo News, 22 Mar 04

56

“This president has ruined our reputation and destroyed our credibility and moral authority. To use a diplomatic term of art, the world is a mess.”

Albright slams Bush over Iraq](http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11222809%255E1702,00.html) The Australian 29 Oct 04

A FEISTY former US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright has denounced George W. Bush, saying the President’s divisive and destructive policies had wreaked havoc on the world and diminished the US.“I am depressed about the standing we have in the world today,” Ms Albright said during a brief stop at an American Legion hall. “This president has ruined our reputation and destroyed our credibility and moral authority. To use a diplomatic term of art, the world is a mess.”

Ms Albright has been campaigning for presidential candidate John Kerry with a group that includes former top generals, a US Marine who served recently in Iraq, and Representative Jane Harman, the highest-ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. Ms Albright described the war in Iraq as a “chaotic disaster.” “It was badly planned,” she continued. "It was horrible. There was no plan. The president calls it a ‘catastrophic success’. Have ever heard those two words together? It’s kind of like imposing democracy, another oxymoron."

57

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *

I am completely offended by the lies exposed.

I have said from the start and I stay that way that I will not vote for any person involved in granting GBJ ultimate powers of decision. Because I blame the entire government for what is happening and what has happend.

Any democrat that uses the excuse that GBJ lied, yet still stood with his decisions lost my vote. And that is the majority of candidites.

I cannot vote for a person who decided Yes with the president of my country and then trys sto spin.

Believe it or not. I know who they are and how they voted on issues.

Mayhap I have been the only one paying attention.

Oh well, that congress lost my vote.

I am hoping that the rest of Americans are paying attention also.

Right now at this moment I am sickend by the entire mass of government and the wannabes.

Either you believe in an issue or you don't.
[/QUOTE]

Yes. I said I would never vote for someone who voted to give George ultimate powers.

Now I am with John Kerry.

He gave an "Ay" vote for George policies initially.

His "Nay" vote for the 87 billion...negates the "Ay".