Nohe is what you read at the mosque after the majlis has finished and we all shia muslims do mattam to it in the respect of our Holy Prophets (P.B.U.T)
what Holy Prophets are we talking here?
^karbala's message is of triumph of the truth against the falsehood............that actually is probably the only thing not happening in Pakistan.........
Muslims brother kills his other muslims brother that is what happened in Karabala, and that is what happening Pakistan.
where as for the triumph part only ALLAH SWT knows whether it was a triumph or was it a division of Islam.
Re: Any Shia ppl on gs.
Fbi can u post the link to ur thread....
Muslims brother kills his other muslims brother that is what happened in Karabala, and that is what happening Pakistan.
where as for the triumph part only ALLAH SWT knows whether it was a triumph or was it a division of Islam.
You are sadly mistaken , Allah had already revealed to our Prophet ( narrated by anas b harith) that hussain b ali will be martyred in karbala.
Its clear who was right and who was wrong , as far as division in islam is concerned it had already started when banu ummayyah started to swallow all the baytul mal for themselves in the time of ibn affan.
Muslims brother kills his other muslims brother that is what happened in Karabala, and that is what happening Pakistan.
where as for the triumph part only ALLAH SWT knows whether it was a triumph or was it a division of Islam.
Ummul Fadhl the daughter of al-Harith said that she entered on the Messenger of Allah (SAW) and she said: “Oh! Messenger of Allah, I saw a strange dream last night. He said: And what is it? She said: It was difficult. He said: And what is it? She said: I saw, as if, a piece of your body was severed and was put in my lap! The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: You saw well - Fatima will give birth, God willing, a boy so he will be in your lap. Then Fatima gave birth to al-Hussain and he was in my lap - just as the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said. So I entered one day on the Messenger of Allah (SAW) and put him in his lap, but I noticed that the eyes of the Messenger of Allah (SAW) pouring tears! So I said: Oh! Prophet of Allah, my parents are your ransom, what is with you? He said: Gabriel came to me and informed me that my nation (ummah) will kill this son of mine.”
[al-Mustadrak al-Sahih, al-Hafidh al-Hakim al-Nisapouri, v. 3, p. 176, (al-Hakim said: “This is an authentic hadith (Sahih) on the conditions of Bukhari and Muslim but they did not print it”); Dalael al-Nubouwa, al-Hafidh al-Bayhaqi under the subject of al-Hussain ; Cf. Ibn al-A'tham IV, (Hyderabad, 1971), p. 211-2, the author narrates this hadith using a different chain of narration.]
Umm Salamah has said: "al-Hussain entered on the Prophet (SAW), while I was sitting at the door, so I saw in the hand of the Prophet (SAW) something he turned over while (Hussain) sleeping on his stomach. I said: Oh messenger of Allah, I looked and saw you turning something over in your hand when the kid was sleeping on your stomach and your tears were pouring? He said: Gabriel came to me with the sand upon which he (Hussain) will be killed. And he informed me that my nation (umma) will kill him.
[al-Musannaf, al-Hafidh abu Bakr bin abi Shaibah, v. 12.]
Ahmed and Ibn al-Dhahhak narrated from Ali : “I entered on the prophet (SAW) and his eyes were flooded, I said: Oh! Prophet of Allah, anyone made you angry? Why are your eyes flooded? He said: Gabriel just left me telling me that al-Hussain will be killed by the river Euphrates. He (the Prophet) said: So he (Gabriel) said: Do you want me to let you smell his dirt (from his burial pot)? I said: Yes! He reached with his hand and grabbed and handful of dirt and gave it to me. So I could not help it and my eyes were flooded.”
[Thakhaer al-Uqba, Muhibbuldeen al-Tabari, p. 148.]
Ibn Saad, Ali bin Muhammad, Yahya bin Zakariya, a man heard it from 'Amir al-Sha'bi say: "When Ali passed by Karbalaa in his march to Siffien and lined up with Nainawa - a village on the Euphrates - he stopped and called one of them men: Tell aba 'Abdullah (al-Hussain ) what this land is called? He said: Karbala. Then he cried until the earth was wet from his tears. He then said: I entered on the messenger of Allah (s) and he was crying. So I said: What makes you cry? He said: Gabriel was with me, just now, and informed me: that my son al-Hussain will be killed at the banks of Furat in a location called Karbala. Then Gabriel grabbed a handful of dirt and let me smell it. So I could not help it, my eyes overflowed."
[al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Ibn Saad; al-Musannaf, Ibn Abi Shaibeh, v. 12 (with "Patience aba 'Abdullah, patience aba 'Abdullah"); al-Moejam al-Kabeer, al-Tabarani, v. 1; Tareekh al-Shamm, Ibn 'Asakir.]
There are more traditions, which speak about the Prophet weeping for Imam Hussain , in Sunni sources, which include:
al-Musnad, Ahmad bin Hanbal, v. 2, p. 60-61; al-Taba'qat al-Kubra, Ibn Saad; al-Moejam al-Kabeer, al-Hafidh al-Tabarani (on subject of al-Hussain); A'lam al-Nubuwwah, al-Mawardi al-Shafi 'I; Kanz al-Ummal, al-Muttaqi al-Hindi.
read the book first and then comment on it ....
Hisham b hakam was the one most commonly associated with imami 12er theology , and the disgraceful practice of sabb-e-sahaba.Yes he does predate safavis and 12er shiaism evolved to its present form over centuries.What I mean was the state ideology of 12ers was finalized during this time as for the first time it got a clear majority in a muslim country. A lot of sources for 12ers are actually common with other muslims so that hardly counts as purely 12er works.
Our main sources are personalities like Shaykh Kulayni, Shaykh Mufid, Sharif Murtada, Shaykh Tusi, Ibn Idris Hilli, Muhaqqiq Hilli, `Allama Hilli, Shaheed al-Awwal, etc. and all their works.
The most important output of the Safavi era scholars was more in the encyclopedic re-compilations of these earlier works into the collections of Wasa'il and Bihar, etc. But that said, most of the sources they used predated that by centuries, and for the most important of them, like Kafi, Faqih, and so on, we still have the original books themselves separate from the the encyclopedic works.
Ummul Fadhl the daughter of al-Harith said that she entered on the Messenger of Allah (SAW) and she said: “Oh! Messenger of Allah, I saw a strange dream last night. He said: And what is it? She said: It was difficult. He said: And what is it? She said: I saw, as if, a piece of your body was severed and was put in my lap! The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: You saw well - Fatima will give birth, God willing, a boy so he will be in your lap. Then Fatima gave birth to al-Hussain and he was in my lap - just as the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said. So I entered one day on the Messenger of Allah (SAW) and put him in his lap, but I noticed that the eyes of the Messenger of Allah (SAW) pouring tears! So I said: Oh! Prophet of Allah, my parents are your ransom, what is with you? He said: Gabriel came to me and informed me that my nation (ummah) will kill this son of mine.”
[al-Mustadrak al-Sahih, al-Hafidh al-Hakim al-Nisapouri, v. 3, p. 176, (al-Hakim said: “This is an authentic hadith (Sahih) on the conditions of Bukhari and Muslim but they did not print it”); Dalael al-Nubouwa, al-Hafidh al-Bayhaqi under the subject of al-Hussain ; Cf. Ibn al-A'tham IV, (Hyderabad, 1971), p. 211-2, the author narrates this hadith using a different chain of narration.]
Umm Salamah has said: "al-Hussain entered on the Prophet (SAW), while I was sitting at the door, so I saw in the hand of the Prophet (SAW) something he turned over while (Hussain) sleeping on his stomach. I said: Oh messenger of Allah, I looked and saw you turning something over in your hand when the kid was sleeping on your stomach and your tears were pouring? He said: Gabriel came to me with the sand upon which he (Hussain) will be killed. And he informed me that my nation (umma) will kill him.
[al-Musannaf, al-Hafidh abu Bakr bin abi Shaibah, v. 12.]
Ahmed and Ibn al-Dhahhak narrated from Ali : “I entered on the prophet (SAW) and his eyes were flooded, I said: Oh! Prophet of Allah, anyone made you angry? Why are your eyes flooded? He said: Gabriel just left me telling me that al-Hussain will be killed by the river Euphrates. He (the Prophet) said: So he (Gabriel) said: Do you want me to let you smell his dirt (from his burial pot)? I said: Yes! He reached with his hand and grabbed and handful of dirt and gave it to me. So I could not help it and my eyes were flooded.”
[Thakhaer al-Uqba, Muhibbuldeen al-Tabari, p. 148.]
Ibn Saad, Ali bin Muhammad, Yahya bin Zakariya, a man heard it from 'Amir al-Sha'bi say: "When Ali passed by Karbalaa in his march to Siffien and lined up with Nainawa - a village on the Euphrates - he stopped and called one of them men: Tell aba 'Abdullah (al-Hussain ) what this land is called? He said: Karbala. Then he cried until the earth was wet from his tears. He then said: I entered on the messenger of Allah (s) and he was crying. So I said: What makes you cry? He said: Gabriel was with me, just now, and informed me: that my son al-Hussain will be killed at the banks of Furat in a location called Karbala. Then Gabriel grabbed a handful of dirt and let me smell it. So I could not help it, my eyes overflowed."
[al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Ibn Saad; al-Musannaf, Ibn Abi Shaibeh, v. 12 (with "Patience aba 'Abdullah, patience aba 'Abdullah"); al-Moejam al-Kabeer, al-Tabarani, v. 1; Tareekh al-Shamm, Ibn 'Asakir.]
There are more traditions, which speak about the Prophet weeping for Imam Hussain , in Sunni sources, which include: al-Musnad, Ahmad bin Hanbal, v. 2, p. 60-61; al-Taba'qat al-Kubra, Ibn Saad; al-Moejam al-Kabeer, al-Hafidh al-Tabarani (on subject of al-Hussain); A'lam al-Nubuwwah, al-Mawardi al-Shafi 'I; Kanz al-Ummal, al-Muttaqi al-Hindi.
Thank you. May Allah (swt) reward you for sharing these.
Our main sources are personalities like Shaykh Kulayni, Shaykh Mufid, Sharif Murtada, Shaykh Tusi, Ibn Idris Hilli, Muhaqqiq Hilli, `Allama Hilli, Shaheed al-Awwal, etc. and all their works.
The most important output of the Safavi era scholars was more in the encyclopedic re-compilations of these earlier works into the collections of Wasa'il and Bihar, etc. But that said, most of the sources they used predated that by centuries, and for the most important of them, like Kafi, Faqih, and so on, we still have the original books themselves separate from the the encyclopedic works.
Bro I know but thats your scholars and their works, but Hisham b Hakam is during the time of 5th and 6th imams.He is much earlier than these scholars.
I think u r misunderstanding me as if the ideology of 12ers was formulated in the safavi times , that is not the case and I didnt mean to say that but the 12er becoming a state religion and its legal/political ramifications was formulated during this time.Esp the role of clergy in 12er shiaism and thats what the author talks about.
Re: Any Shia ppl on gs.
[note] Just curious what is the purpose of this thread? If it is to get to know other shia's, I will move it to appropriate forum for gupshup. If it is to discuss Muharram or mattam/nohay/majlis and prove each other wrong; I guess then we need to stop right here and discuss something that we can use to to mend our, lives, character, society, community issues, etc. [/note]
Re: Any Shia ppl on gs.
^exactly
islam forbids mourning for more than three days. chest beating, lamenting, wailing and dramabazi is totally not permissible. any1 who does that sems like he/she is not aggreeing wit6h Allah's decisions.
i read a book bu musfti MoHammad Shaf'ii Usmani and there are 10 beliefs if one subscribes to it is NOT even considered a muslim. if any1 interested i'll p[ost those 10 beliefs.
Do you know where i could buy the book from or read it online?
ismaili here… 