Another attempt at NWFP name change..

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Another attempt at NWFP name change..

Pakistani Pakhtuns love Pakistan & hence every nook & corner of it...I give a damn what Afghani pakhtuns do or think...who cares...but from now on wards they would not be allowed to speak against Pakistan while living in Pakistan...Go back to your own country...where you came from in 1980's & 1990's....

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You should read some of the posts on this board and then decide who said what…
Senstivity is relative. How sensative and myopic are you when it comes to the suffering of say people like the minorities, such as the Ahmedis and Christians. I havent seen this so called suffering of the Pasthuns. All I see when mim in Pakistan is Pasthuns taking all the jobs where ever they go. Go to any city or town and there are Pashtuns, many very succesful. I dont see your sufffering, all I see are a people who have reaped the fruits of OUR country, living in our cities, prospering in our cities, and in return cursing us for somthing most of us never even knew we did. I have given examples of this succes aswell. In my own home town, the Mayor of the areas tehsil is a Pashtun. Every where I go, the Punjabis are jobless and the Pushtoons are working. They control the trucking industry in my area, they control just about everything in Karachi from Taxi drivers to Naan shop owners.

  1. My father was forced to leave Pakistan because of Zia… Political issues. And we are Punjabis so who the hell are you to say the Pashtuns only suffered because of him.
    Zia was the biggest Bhan… You know what in the history of the country. I would piss on his grave.
    I would think considering how relgious you people are, you would have loved that a hole.
    And how is it our fault that you suffered during the Afghan war. The Russians invaded the Country, America used us as a part of its game. We went on board because we had to, we needed the support to counter India. We also were threatened by continued Russian expansion in towards Pakistan. How could the Pashtuns have benefited a war in which they were the ones involved in doing the fighting, thats why you called it the Pashtun war, because it was they who were fighting. All of Pakistan has suffered because of that war, Gun culture, drugs, crime, the refugee problem, are you blind to all this!
    The problem with you people is that your never happy. I remember once I said that we should never have involved ourselves in the Afghan war and some Pashtun started getting pissed and calling us cowards, and now your here cursing us for getting involved.. MAKE UP YOU FRIGGIN MINDS!
    Half the time you blame us for creating the TALIBAN, and then you curse us if we are critical of what they do and helped in their demise.. MAKE UP YOUR MIND!
    The only thing I agree with you on is the whole Punjab benefited.. I told you why aswell, because the Army is in charge and most of them come from Puunjab. Its a lack of Democracy that a problem here. Plus consider how anyone would ever invest in NWFP when all we ever hear is things like people going around defacing billboards. Thats not exactly an environment that begs for investment.
  1. Pakistan is a sovreign country that wants to defend its borders. Afghanistan from the very first day has been trying to force the NWFP to leave Pakistan, so obviously the Pak govt has always been trying to gain influence and thus negate the problem. The Taliban, I never supported them mind you, was a group supported by Pushtoons aswell. No one suspected they would be such But holes when they were put in power, it was a solution to the anarchy that was existing after the Russians left. But MANY MANY MANY people supoprted the Taliban, dont deny it. You people THANK US AND CURSE US IN THE SAME BREATH. By the way, Cold War ended in 91, Taliban came to power in 96..
    Plus, isnt that the kind of Taliban hardcore govt the Pashtoons want, considering what great Muslims they are?
  2. This is COMPLETE bullsh1t. You have absolutely no proof that Pakistan aided these people into getting into Pakistan. Fact is, and independant sources will confirm this, that Osama and the rest were smuggled in by bribing someone from the tribal areas, and sneaking out. They are now hiding in FATA somplace as guests of Pushtoon tribesmen. The Pakistani establishment didnt get heavy artillary just because the terrorsit escaped from Tora Bora. Many terrorist who didnt escape from there were already in Pakistan… America rewarded Pakistan for helping in the war against terror. Pakistan has and continues to do what it can to arrest these people.
    Pashtoon land will be a battle field forever because your tribals are conintueing to harbor these people. You have all kinds of hardline Mullahs who espouse terrorism as means to god knows what and thus are asking for trouble.
    Remember Pakistan army never went into Fata in fifty years, until it was forced to. Clean your own house, dont blame us for your problems.
  3. Why would Pakistan want anyting other then a prosperous Afghanistan? That is if they dont start causng more trouble! Everytime they get a chance, the Afghans try to instigate more problems. Why do you think Pakistanis are so obsessed with Afghanistan and not say, Iran? Because Afghans have always caused trouble in our country by inciting people like you. And the when we try to defend our intrests, we are blamed for interfering with them. What a load of sh1t.
    I dont want your land to be a war zone, do us all a favor and clean it up. Go to you tribals and tell them to kick out those butt hole terrorists. Most of the ones that are causing trouble in Afghnaistan now happen to be comming from accross the Durrand line. You try and stop them!
  4. FATA is the most backwards place in the world. They themselves dont want schools or investment because they are afraid they will be controled by the govt. Why in gods name would Pakistan want to have and entire area outside their control? The FATA is outside the system because that is the way they want it! Its the only way to keep the peace with those people. YTou should be thanking us not cursing us. The only one doing the dirty activty is your tribesmen who harbor criminals, drugs dealers and gun runners. We cant go in to clean it up because they have their independance. There your people, you fix them. We go in there and you will say we are trying to destroy the Pushtoons. Make up your minds.. Whatever the govt does you think its a conpiricy.
  5. As for your Malakand project: one if Lahore consumes more electricity then all of NWFP then I dont see what the problem is with connecting the grid with Lahore. What the hell is NWFP going to do with the electricity if they dont even use half the energy produced. Better it be used for something practical.
    Two, I see no problem with connecting the electricity grid with the rest of the Nation since NWFP is stll a apart of the Country. Other countries have national grids aswell including US. I suppose the choose to supply Lahore because its was the nearest big city. Had Karachi been near by, they would have sent the electricity to Karachi. Had NWFP needed that much electricty, they would have gotten it. And why hasnt this been brought up with your great MMA, or are they too busy trying to make you into even better Muslims to worry about something that to you seems like oppression. By the way, who is going to be working in this power plant, Pushthoons or Punjabis? I will agree with you if you say that Pushtons arent hired to run this plant, but otherwise I think you just making a mountain out of a mole hill. There have been greater injustices commited in Punjab and the rest of the country then this. I can give you personal examples.
    I say we all suffer under the current set up. I think thats a unifying factor. Pusthoons arent the only ones with problems.
OMYGOD....can u see IT
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Re: Another attempt at NWFP name change..

Are you a Pashtoon?

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If you say so..

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I am Hindko speaking. For our part in this I would say PAshtuns are very good people, loyal, hard working and very dedicated to islam. The pashtun contribution to south asian muslims\pakistan can never be questioned. That said the hindko speaking would never be in favour of joining Afghanistan. It is a regressive failed society with a long history of ethnic warfare. Relative to that country, PAkistan look like Switzerland or Monaco in social or economic terms.
That said, all you need to get over ethnicity as a whole. Today there was another bombing in London, people wont care if you are Pashtun, Punjabi, Hindko speaking or for that matter sikh or hindu - they will see you as an outsider all the same. While the world kicks muslims a$$ from one side to another we spend our time plotting and planning against each other.

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Good to know Elahi... You know they say Hindko is very similar to the Punjabi spoken in my area around Chakwal.. Is that true?
By the way, how do you feel about the Province be name Pakhtunistan?

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If they renamed it, the name would'nt be so inclusive of the Hindko speaking obviously. But it is'nt such a big deal and the province is majority Pasthun so they deserve the name if they so choose.

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I think people of NWFP deserve a name for their province, and not just a geographic gobbledigook. Put four or five good options on the table and then get a referendum to ask the people. Though likely the vote will be split according to ethnic lines and will be a prequel of splitting the privince in 2 or more parts.

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I guess all of us Pashtuns who speak for our rights are "Afghanis" and should go back to Afghanistan? Can I here get a Pakistani Pashtun who wouldn't agree with me and the rest of the Pashtuns on this thread? Remember I said Pashtun not some "Pathan".

Goliko, on the land where we live, we lived on before Pakistan existed. Thanks to our approvel Pakistan came into existence. And if we want we will take it out of existence.

If we mop you guys with facts and some hardcore debate then you label us Afghanis, Hindus, Indians, and angry Pakhtuns. We are not the one challeging war, but like a fellow wror said, if it comes to it we won't back out.

I request all self respecting Pakhtuns to not waste more time here. We have done and said all that needed to be said. Now the only thing is left for these guys is emotional outbursts and slanders. When a child take something away from another child and when he is reported, that child starts crying and kicks like a donkey to keep what is not his.

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Logo your debate is based on nothing more then assumptions and pure hatred... If you had it rough its not our fault. I agree there are problems, but your not gonna win us over by throwing yourself in with the Afghans. If you want a debate, speak as a Pakistani Pasthun, not as an Afghan, otherwise dont expect much from anyone.

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Pakpatriot, I wish you come to Pakistan, I really don’t know you are in which corner of the world, being such a patriot who does not know abc of his country. Pakhtoons have snatched the job opportunities from Punjabi, ah, you must be joking. In fact no Punjabi likes to do any low salary job and these poor Pakhtoons come from far flung areas of Pakhtoonkhwa and in unknown area with unknown people, these people do all such jobs which are rejected by Punjabis. btw, why should a Punjabi do such a low salary job, once he can get far better job in Pakistan or outside Pakistan. Please see the labours in Dubai, KSA and other parts of the world, most of the labours are Pakhtoons, while a lesser educated Punjabis are there on official jobs. Kiya Insaaf he is mulk main.
BTW, I know Punjabis, they are very good people, they dont want to grab all the resources of the country. They like Pakhtoons, Balochis, Sindhis and others, but these poor people do not know that their political leaders are the real enemies of Pakistan. If you go Pakhtoonkhwa, Sindh or Balochistan, people abuse Punjabis because they think that Punjab has control over all the resources of the country. I wish to see any Punjabi who realizes why they are being hated everywhere. See GM Syed, a strong leader of Pakistan Movement, but what happened to the poor man, the same person asking for Sindhudesh, See Bangalis, who forced them to demand for six points. I don’t know but if there is any threat to Pakistan sovereignty, it will only be because of Punjab.

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Whatever gets you off yaar. We will always be Afghans, it is in our blood. Nations are made and erased but blood always remains. It is utter hypocrisy of you Punjabis/Mohajiroon while you yourselves want to open up Wagha border, allow your mothers and sisters dance on Basant with Indian Punjabi sardars Sikhs and Hindu in the streets of Lahore, allow Indian Bollywood hold fashion shows in your girls colleges, allow Indian business men and filmi stars to invest in Lahore and other cities, at the same time talk about a single currency, yet you tell the Pashtuns to forget who we are? Even Musharaf visited his village where he was born and took his mother to see his “home” in India.

p.s. Give me a holler when you find a Pakistani Pashtun who doesn’t consider himself an Afghan. Remember a “Pashtun” not some Pathan.

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He will have to take out all the blood of the pakhtoons. May be through Artillery and Armour, he has Mad Sceintist with him.

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Logo...You have said 10 times in this thread that this would be your last post on this topic... but then you would came back again,....why don't you leave the Pashtuns alone ...& regurgitate your hatered for Pakistan in some other thread...Ofcourse your posts are too naive for a strong Pakistani Society to create a civil strife in...

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I know a good number of people doing low salary jobs who are punjabi. And I have seen a good number of succesful Pashtoons. I think this is a case of blowing things out of proportion. Many people have complained that Pushtoons take jobs by taking lower salaries.. In my own area the Pushtoons took over jobs back in the day. You should be glad to have work in Pakistan considering how suckie and crappy everything is. Come to New York and you will see Punjabis driving Taxis and working in construction jobs, Haain kya insaaf hai. And why in the world do you do low paying jobs, if your to good for it then dont do it… Educate yourselves, find ways to break out of your cycle of poverty, stop pointng fingers and do something for yourself, instead of pointing finger and threatening to run off and join that war torn state across the border. I know my political leaders are the real enemies.. So are all the elites in Pakistani society, I never said it wasnt. I personally dont see this as Punjabis versus the Pathans or anything like that, I see this as the poor and uneducated against the elitist Army/land lord/ Mullah alliance. If you people are gonna turn this into a province versus province thing and then throw yourselves in with the god damn Afghans who do nothing more then leach of the society like a bunch of parasites (by the way, how many of those poor Pushtoons are actually refugees?) and then curse us for it at the same time, then dont expect any sympathy from me or anyone else… If you really want to stand up for someone, stand up for yourself and the rest of the oppressed people of the country.. You need to look at Pakistan through unbiased eyes, and perhaps leave the country aswell to see what really out there..

Congrats India!
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This was supposed to be a friendly debate on the new name for the NWFP, until Logo decided to turn it into his personal hunting ground.

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Could careles what you are… we dont want your kind in our country anyways. But I tell you this much, try and seperate and you will pay..
Yeah we have culture, we like to dance and have a good time. That is part of our society and we are proud. I love Pakistan and I love being Punjabi Pakistani.
I dont know what you Pushtoons are but I know what you are… And I do know an Pakistani Pushtoon who doesnt consider himself Afghan…:slight_smile:
So Holler!

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Logo, try living in Afghanistan, you probably crap your pants before you figure how to squate behind a bush and use a rock as a toilet paper…Idiot:rolleyes:

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Just to highlight How much Pathans are loved in Afghanistan…

Ethnic Pashtuns in Afghanistan are being attacked in a wave of violence that could undermine the country’s future, a human rights group has claimed.
Pashtun communities in the north of the country are being uprooted while their people are killed, beaten and raped according to a new report from the US-based group, Human Rights Watch.

Ethnic Pashtuns are in a minority in the north of Afghanistan

The advocacy organisation called on the international community to act immediately to protect Pashtuns before the beginning of the loya jirga process which will lead to the selection of Afghanistan’s new rulers.

Interim leader Hamid Karzai and the United Nations refugee agency have also highlighted concerns about abuse directed at Pashtuns, who formed the majority of the ousted Taleban though they are a minority in the country and particularly in the north.

The Human Rights Watch report says attacks have come from the three major armed factions in the north which break down along broadly ethnic lines into Uzbeks, Tajiks and Hazara.

Attacks detailed

The 56-page report, “Paying for the Taleban’s Crimes: Abuses Against Ethnic Pashtuns in Northern Afghanistan”, details findings from four weeks of interviews from villagers, community leaders and international observers.

Crimes listed in the report include:

37 Pashtun men killed by Hazara gunmen in Balkh province in December after being tied up and beaten in front of their families

Two Pashtun men held for a week in a basement in Samangan province in December and beaten by Uzbek soldiers until they paid money

A Pashtun farmer in Baghlan province beaten in front of a Tajik commander who was demanding money from him. His wife was also attacked.
The researchers said they also interviewed rape victims and witnesses despite cultural barriers to reporting sexual violence.

Peter Bouckaert, Human Rights Watch senior researcher for emergencies, said continued anti-Pashtun violence would threaten the future of Afghanistan.

“If northern Pashtuns are unable to take part in district or regional meetings to choose their representatives, then the validity of the entire loya jirga process will be called into question,” he said.

“The international community must act now to guarantee the security of northern Pashtuns and other local minorities across Afghanistan as the loya jirga process begins.”

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Here is another Article on Afghan history… Pay particular attention to the following..
"Afghanistan is a colourful carpet of different nations and national minorities. The Pashtuns are the largest minority, with about 40% of the population; most of them live in the southern and western regions. The Tajiks are one of the larger minorities, and other smaller national minorities include the Uzbeks, Hazaras, Turkmen, Baluchis, Nuristanis and some smaller groupings. Most ethnic groups have cultural and language ties outside the country. The most widely spoken language is Dari (or Tajik – different names for the same language that is also spoken in Iran, where it is called Farsi).

        The Pashtuns have historically been the dominant nation. The formation of the centralised state under overall British rule saw a strong rise in chauvinism. This has been a constant source of contradiction with non-Pashtuns, who constitute the majority of the population. Not only was much of the arable and pastureland that belonged to non-Pashtun tribes and clans given to Pashtuns, but many men and women of Hazara origin were also taken into slavery. (Slavery had been formally abolished after independence.) The “Afghanising” of the country (locally Pashtuns are referred to as Afghans) was symbolised in the changing of the country’s name to Afghanistan and local geographical names to Pashtun names. In most of the country’s recent history, Pashtuns have held a virtual monopoly on the higher ranks of the state, including the army.2

        At the same time, far from being united, the Pashtun ruling classes are divided along clan lines. The contradictions between these clans have continued to be a source of conflict among different Islamic Pashtun parties during and after Soviet occupation."

http://www.awtw.org/back_issues/1998-24/darknessAfghan24eng.htm

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