Re: And it comes down to france
^^ PD read it this morning excellent article. If you get a chance read the times UK and read an op-ed on the same issue. Friedman's comments are like eyecandy to what this guy wrote. He slammed it into the frenchies (the way they deserve it).
Moan-a-me.
Re: And it comes down to france
Upon reading this article, my wife said.."europe will be a place where all things go to die...but they do make really pretty scarves" :)
Re: And it comes down to france
PD,
My personal favorite country is the Ukraine, as a people they are remarkably smart. The Soviets, whatever you think about them had an awesome University system, and virtually everyone attends. They have always had some brilliant people. Now alcoholism, corruption and the Ukrainian mafia are big drains on the economy, but, the entrprenurial energy there is incredible. Everybody thinks nothing of working two or three jobs. Once they shed the communist work ethic of doing as little as possible, they unleashed a dynamo. One computer will have five people around it, dying to get to work. The average salary is $200 to $250 per month. Want people to work around the clock? Fine. And they love America. By the time the average Frenchman has finished his second latte, the Average Ukrainain woman has been at work five hours. When corruption is tamed, standards for capital protection enacted, and capital is injected, the Ukrainians will eat the French alive for a tenth of the cost without leaving Europe.
For most of Eastern Europe this is the reality. They don't give a crap about the EU, the EU is just a means to achieve success. They don't care about a power balance in the world. Like most French and Germans, they just want jobs and an opportunity.
Re: And it comes down to france
Out of your three quotes, two are factually incorrect and one is an opinion, thus it doesn’t mean ****.
Re: And it comes down to france
What Friedman forgets is that the EU has a consistant policy to make sure that even though it has a negative population growth rate, the net inflow of immigrants make sure there is a steady level of individuals who can pay taxes to support the elderly.
Re: And it comes down to france
OK..go read yesterdays WSJ.."if the current rate of unemplyment and growth continues for the EU, the percapita GDP will be half that of America..in less than two generations" sobered you up yet?
Re: And it comes down to france
PD current rate lasting two generations? God damn man how retard are you? Its like saying if the great depression lasted another 10 years the US would be like India. Who the hell knows what will happen in 70 to 80 years? Bloody americans!
Re: And it comes down to france
actually it is suppose to be on a degrading scale..I was being kind... once agan you have neither the understanding nor the inclination to face the facts when presented. the entire EU economic infra as we speak of today, unless changed to become like America is bound to fail and fail miserably. Socially responsible, compassion and egalite are great principles..unfortunately one can achieve the same if giving the people the opportunity to decide for themselves instead of creating a culture of dependence which hampers innovation, capital flows and human ingenuity. IF EU is the model that is the right model...why is it that the rest of the world is not following it?
Re: And it comes down to france
Not following it?
Mercosur?
ASEAN?
ASEAN+3?
SAFTA?
AFTA?
NEPAD?
Now following the EU model? Everybody is trying to follow the EU model. FTA - Customs Union - Monetary Union - Economic integration following my social and political harmonization.
Its simple dear old walking stick that you can't tell what is gonna happen in 20 years. If the Economist predicted that in 20 years the US would be worse off then India or China woudl you give it any credit? Of course not. But do you your biased point of view and limited scope on reality you spew this BS as a constant when it will never be a constant.
Re: And it comes down to france
hahah... listen fatboy...EU as a single market=Good....EU having a common currency=Good...unfortunately the people in Brussels have the wrong mandate in place. you cannot run unemployment rates of 8-12% y/y..have legislations in place to hamper businesses from firing employees based on business necessities...you cannot have huge disparities in economic growth country by country... this is the problem with the EU. Until these things are fixed to come into par with the like of US..EU will be sliding down.
regarding CHina dna INdia vis-a-vis US, trust me kid when I tell you this. It depends on the source...if Goldman says it..I listen..IF morgan says it I listen...if McKinsey says it I listen...if a 23 yr old coffee fetcher with a third rate education and a fourth rate experience from a defunct and ineffective agency tells me this...I tear them a new one.
Re: And it comes down to france
Once again you make Mark twain's words come true. Not everything is about the US. But i disgress. Now on the subject matter, you say that the Wallstreet journal said such and such will happen in 2 generations. You are spewing off a prediction with no factual basis off as a constant. It ain't a constant.
Its like saying in 2 generations if current trends continue the US will be exactly as stated in 1984. If the WSJ or Goldman said it, it would still be a prediction and not a constant. Consumer driven thought processes should not limit the scope of thinking as is your case.
Re: And it comes down to france
A Race to the Top
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/opinion/03friedman.html?oref=login
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: June 3, 2005
Bangalore, India
It was extremely revealing traveling from Europe to India as French voters (and now Dutch ones) were rejecting the E.U. constitution - in one giant snub to President Jacques Chirac, European integration, immigration, Turkish membership in the E.U. and all the forces of globalization eating away at Europe’s welfare states. It is interesting because French voters are trying to preserve a 35-hour work week in a world where Indian engineers are ready to work a 35-hour day. Good luck.
Voters in “old Europe” - France, Germany, the Netherlands and Italy - seem to be saying to their leaders: stop the world, we want to get off; while voters in India have been telling their leaders: stop the world and build us a stepstool, we want to get on. I feel sorry for Western European blue collar workers. A world of benefits they have known for 50 years is coming apart, and their governments don’t seem to have a strategy for coping.
One reason French voters turned down the E.U. constitution was rampant fears of “Polish plumbers.” Rumors that low-cost immigrant plumbers from Poland were taking over the French plumbing trade became a rallying symbol for anti-E.U. constitution forces. A few weeks ago Franz Müntefering, chairman of Germany’s Social Democratic Party, compared private equity firms - which buy up failing businesses, downsize them and then sell them - to a “swarm of locusts.”
The fact that a top German politician has resorted to attacking capitalism to win votes tells you just how explosive the next decade in Western Europe could be, as some of these aging, inflexible economies - which have grown used to six-week vacations and unemployment insurance that is almost as good as having a job - become more intimately integrated with Eastern Europe, India and China in a flattening world.
To appreciate just how explosive, come to Bangalore, India, the outsourcing capital of the world. The dirty little secret is that India is taking work from Europe or America not simply because of low wages. It is also because Indians are ready to work harder and can do anything from answering your phone to designing your next airplane or car. They are not racing us to the bottom. They are racing us to the top.
Indeed, there is a huge famine breaking out all over India today, an incredible hunger. But it is not for food. It is a hunger for opportunity that has been pent up like volcanic lava under four decades of socialism, and it’s now just bursting out with India’s young generation.
“India is the oldest civilization, the largest democracy and the youngest population - almost 70 percent is below age 35 and almost 50 percent is 25 and under,” said Shekhar Gupta, editor of The Indian Express. Next to India, Western Europe looks like an assisted-living facility with Turkish nurses.
Sure, a huge portion of India still lives in wretched slums or villages, but more and more of the young cohort are grasping for something better. A grass-roots movement is now spreading, demanding that English be taught in state schools - where 85 percent of children go - beginning in first grade, not fourth grade. “What’s new is where this movement is coming from,” said the Indian commentator Krishna Prasad. “It’s coming from the farmers and the Dalits, the lowest groups in society.” Even the poor have been to the cities enough to know that English is now the key to a tech-sector job, and they want their kids to have those opportunities.
The Indian state of West Bengal has the oldest elected Communist government left in the world today. Some global technology firms recently were looking at outsourcing there, but told the Communists they could not do so because of the possibility of worker strikes that might disrupt the business processes of the companies they work for. No problem. The Communist government declared information technology work an “essential service,” making it illegal for those workers to strike. Have a nice day.
“This is not about wages at all - the whole wage differential thing is going to reduce very quickly,” said Rajesh Rao, who heads the innovative Indian game company, Dhruva. It is about people who have been starving “finally seeing the ability to realize their dreams.” Both Infosys and Wipro, India’s leading technology firms, received more than one million applications last year for a little more than 10,000 job openings.
Yes, this is a bad time for France and friends to lose their appetite for hard work - just when India, China and Poland are rediscovering theirs.
Paul Krugman is on vacation.
Re: And it comes down to france
Already posted. And secondly Poland is part of the EU.
Re: And it comes down to france
Yes I agree with PD that french NON vote was because of their fear that cheap skilled workers from eastern europe is out to get them. They fear that they will loose jobs in large no. due to oursourcing. And also about the cheap food products made in eastern europe could displace the agri products from the french.
They wanted more nationalistic govt. who can take decisions for the french people taking their interest first.
But i thought US would be much pleased with a united europe.. where they can dilute the french ideologies or negate them with their own stead fast allies from the eastern europe block.
.
I think the people are not ready yet for the united states of europe. The politicians pushed it too far down the throat of the voters. If at all they wanted such things they should not have gone for a referendum.
Re: And it comes down to france
I quoteth myself.