Re: And it comes down to france
Yet another example of how much you can count on France when it counts.
Re: And it comes down to france
Well **** that. That is a serious blow to the EU. Certainly not happy with this development.
And quite correct that was a stupid. Not thinking today it seems and neither are the french.
Minah did anybody doubt it? Yeah a great man people did. 20% were undecided that reflected a very strong possibility for them to gain the votes needed.
Re: And it comes down to france
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Re: And it comes down to france
France votes no. Good!!!
How will france now face up in the parliament.. it will be funny. Next in line neatherland but i think there is not much to loose for the dutch anyway. It was france which lost it. Now forget even getting germanys yes vote.
They should just have a normal monetory -defence union than a political one.
Re: And it comes down to france
Seminole,
If you were to count our infants, toddlers, school children, disabled, elderly, housewives and idle rich, we would have a lot more than 7.7 million unemployed. See, America is screwed. Econ must not be a stength at those Eurotrash boarding schools.
So begins the break up of the EU. What started out as a basis for efficent trade and travel has become a monster. Time for some reality.
Re: And it comes down to france
The no vote was supported by the communist and the far right. The two ends of the political spectra. And they won it. Strange. What will Chirac do now!!!... what happens further.. will there be a second referendum.
Re: And it comes down to france
Again the EU was not established for trade or travel. It was established for politcal and military reasons.
Second referendum in France is very rare. Analysts say the possibility of that happening is near to impossible.
Re: And it comes down to france
Holland says NO by 62% to 38%
Re: And it comes down to france
Mr. Blair can't possibly think of holding a referendum on this in Britain anymore. I'd guess 80-85% would say no.
England hasn't been conquered by Europeans since 1066 and I've met very few people there who don't view the EU as being yet another European scheme like the Spanish Armada, Napolean's fleet, and the Battle of Britain to take over the UK....
If there was a vote, I'd register for it as an overseas Briton and then vote no. I won't vote Yes to a document I haven't read and I'll be damned if I'll reading 800 pages of Brussels mumbo-jumbo.
Re: And it comes down to france
And you are a dumbass. Do you know what the Constitution imbodies and allows the EU to do? Harmonize military and foriegn policy. Something urgently needed in a uni-polar world.
Re: And it comes down to france
So CM, you think the EU is gonna be successful in the future despite France and Holland voting no?
Re: And it comes down to france
Absolutely. This is not a process that will stop. Look at the history of the EU. What you have is alot of change suddenly. You had Masstrich in 1992. Nice I think in 1996 or 97. The Euro in 2000/01 and then of course the Expansion in 2005. In less than 15 years you have created a huge unique and working system. It is too much for people to handle.
Plus referendums always become an issue to "punish" the present government.
Re: And it comes down to france
But who knows what else is in there? Harmonized military and foreign policy takes 2-4 pages, not 800!!!
Re: And it comes down to france
EU’s military is called NATO headed by the United States, don't fool yourselves.
Re: And it comes down to france
CM, I don’t know much about the EU so I appreciate your input. But as mad scientist pointed out, what’s up with the 800 pages? 
Re: And it comes down to france
Let's put a couple of things on the table:
First, the "military coordination" of the EU is a joke. They have no military. It is all gone. The percentage of GDP spent on the military is at all time lows across Europe. AND, NATO had filled that role more than adequately for 50 years.
Second, coordinating foreign affairs? The foreign interests of the Ukraine and France could not be more apart. What CM really means is that he, and a number of like minded people wanted a political and economic entity to challenge the US. End of purpose. For that the EU was going to have an additional layer of Government with a silly rotating Presidency which would have no real universal authority. Most of the critical decision making ability was still with individual countries.
Let it implode, and get back to the universal issue that make sense for Europe, currency, trade, travel and economics.
Re: And it comes down to france
One of the theories is that thisis why the EU’s leaders want Turkey. Turkey, with a huge population and mandatory conscription will give the EU a huge pool of soldiers.
Now my theory: Since Turkey is so far removed culturally from the rest of Europe, this means that when EU soldiers (read: Turks) start dying, their deaths won’t feel shocking to the rest of the population.
Basically, the EU withe Turkey will be able to be militarily much more active and hence spread its influence, because it could deploy more troops to more dangerous locations than if it had to commit Western or Eastern European men… the political fallout from their deaths won’t be as strong.
Re: And it comes down to france
All gone? Then why does the US hang on to NATO? After all the EU has no military force or power, so why even have NATO? The US is using in NATO in Afghanistan instead of its own troops.
The EU has alot of FP in common. After all it depends on national interests and with a common EU market it becomes common to internal policy which is affected by foreign policy. It is a natural evolution.
Re: And it comes down to france
Maddy,
The day that the EU starts manditory conscription is the day the EU breaks apart.
CM, NATO is a shadow of what it used to be during the cold war. Just because Europe can muster a couple thousand soldiers does not mean much. That is barely enough troops to put down a large riot in a European city. During WWI, Europe lost nearly a million troops ina month. Today France cannot even keep its one carrier afloat. The only reason they produce wepons is to sell them. Welcome to Pax Americana.
Re: And it comes down to france
I wasn’t talking about mandatory conscription in the main part of Europe, but rather the fact that Turkey currently has and in future will continue to have mandatory conscription. This is what enables Turkey to have a much larger army than any current or future EU country - and if the EU wants to project power abroad, bringing Turkey into the EU would be a big step.