Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

The issue of Zafarullah Khan Sahib not reading the namaz-e-Janazah of Qaid-e-Azam is unrelated to Iqbal but in some what it isn’t.

As I was trying to explain before that Ch. Zafarullah rahmaullah had a very different take on Jam’at. He followed the Khalifa of the time like a child follows his mother. The fatwa of the Khalifa of the time was that no Ahmadi should read namaz-e-Janazah of a non-Ahmadi as long as it was being lead by a non-Ahmadi Imam. I can go into details of this fatwa but that’s beside the point. So, Zafarullah Khan Sahib didn’t budge on his belief and the instructions of the Khalifa. Like I said before, throughout his life Zafarullah Khan Sahib held his beliefs over pleasing others. Anyone can have differences of opinion with him but you have to respect his sense of conviction.

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

:jhanda:

Ye ilzam woh log lagatay hain jo khud kuchh naheen kar saktay.

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

I disagree- My point is Allama Iqbal was never very fond of Mirza sahib once he found out what mirza Jee believed.

Allama Iqbal died in 1938 i think.
Let me quote what he wrote before that about qadiyanis/mirza Jee

In a meeting of *Anjuman Hamyat e ISlam *—1902

Aa kay baad izz Tau nabuwaat shadd ba har mafhoom shirk
bazm ra roshan z noor shamma irfan kerdah

In magzine Punja e Faullad and in Makhzan Lahore—1902

The couplet is on the reqest of bayah from qadiyan and also crticises mirza sahibs habit of death forecast of his enemies
Tau judai per jan daita hay
wasal ki rah sochta haun main
bhaiyon main bigar haoi jis say
uss ibadat ko kia sarhon main
marg e ighyaar per khushi hay tujhay
aur ansoon bhaa rahja haun main

On the claim of Mirza Jee of being Misl e masih or Misl e Muhammad :saw:

Mujh ko inkar nahi aamed e mehdi say magar
ghair mumkin hay koi misl ho paida tera

In ramooz e bay khuddi 1915

Pass khuda bar ma shariat khutum kerd
bar rasool ma risalat khutum kerd
la nabi baadi z ihsan khuda sat
pard e namoos deen e khud ast
haq taalah naqsh har dawah shikast
ta abad islam ra shiraza bast

This is so obvious from his poetry , he clearly gave reasons of calling mirza Jee shiakh kaleesa nawaz
In 1916 he said-

  • Jo shaks Nabi Akram:saw: kay baad kisis aisay nabi ki qail ho jis ka inkar mustalzam kuffar hay tau wo kharij iz islam ho ga. agar qadiyani jamaat ka bhi yahi aqeadah hay tau wo bhi daira islam say kharij hay*
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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

Bao,

If you get anything out of this thread, it should be that there are many sides to the story.

All your quotes seem to be from the website you mentioned before. I suggest you visit some of the other websites like Lahore Anjuman website that openly discusses this issue and you will see that they also quote couplets and books where Iqbal had nothing but praise for not only Mirza Sahib but also Ahmadis in general.

Its also interesting that you mention Anjuman Himayat-i Islam in your quotes because at the time of Munir Court Enquiry in 1953, it was former general secretary of the Anjuman Himayat-i Islam Maulvi Muhiyud Din Qasoori who confirmed that Iqbal took bait and became part of Ahmadiyya jama’at in the 1890s.

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

mere pardada aur ilama bachpan kay langotiye yaar thay, they used to have starbucks cappucino. If there is any problem let me know.

so????
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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

Allama praising Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has also been admitted by Justice Javed Iqbal in his book "Zinda Rud".

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

He is not qouting from any site but his real poetry. I have read this too. And look into my journal, I have qouted the praise for Sayyedna Mohammad :saw:. Mirza Ahmed is a false prophet and we dont beleive him. Anyone who beleive in him is a non muslim. Got it? I am speaking as a grand daughter of Allama Iqbal.

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

:cb:

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

Let’s assume for moment that he did…

Then after finding out what Ahmadiya movement truly was, he not only outrightly rejected it but through his poetry became its staunchest opposers…

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

^
and ofcourse, since He was born in 1877... hence, his age at 1890 was merely 13 years old.. a teenager found out very quickly... all that assuming if [a big one] that he did take bait... which I doubt:D

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

Actually the date that usually is referenced is 1897 but some other dates in the 1890s are also mentioned.

Lajo, the flip-flopping on beliefs is nothing new and being staunchly opposed does not necessarily means disagreement on beliefs. It can be for many reasons. For example, many people at the time of the Holy Prophet (saw) became murtad and often staunchly opposed the Holy Prophet (saw), even a kaatib-e-quran became murtad & then helped the Meccans in wars and violence against the Muslims throughout his life. You can’t say that he found out what truly Islam was and then decided to become its enemy.

To give a more resent example, during the Raj the Imam of the grand Dehli masjid became a Christian. To give an even a more resent example, I have a blood relative who rejected Ahmadiyyat in the chaos of 74, because a mob came to burn down his house along with his family. In the later years he apposed Ahmadiyyat in the same village. Now that his children reside in Canada, they sometimes visit Ahmadi masjid.

So, in case of Allama it can be difference in belief, but it can also be personal ego, political ambition and jealousy or something as simple as stable financial future. It certainly raises question as to why he would be apposed to a movement, yet would send his son to them for education and would often consult the same movement on matters of religious jurisprudence.

OMG, what your grand father or cousin grandfather did or did not do should not have any bearing on what and who you are. You shouldn’t be ashamed of his deeds, as he is a man of his own. Being a national & political figure his personal life often comes into discussion but rest assured that my interest in it is only from a historical point of view. I hope you too won’t take it personally.

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

Whats the big deal.:chai: Now I dont care what people say about my grandfather. Because Sun is sun, if someone call it moon, it will not turn into moon.:chai:

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

Assalam o Alaikum

Got hold of this very good book on iqbal from iqbal acedmy ,

hope attached images clears some confusion about allama iqbal :)

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

If you have read LastOfDinaosours posts in political section of gupshup, you won't find it hard to understand why he brought up this topic.

He simply hates Pakistan and Pakistanis except Pashtuns, had Iqbal been a Pashtun, LOD would have never questioned his faith. (I have read enough of his posts to make this judgement).

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

I am surprised none of the resident Hindus have claimed Iqbal to be one of their own, perhaps a reincarnation of one of their Gods...

As far as the veracity or lack thereof of this whole topic , is concerned...I'd like to know what the frick is "Apna Garaiban Chak"...Don't hindus and qadianis have better things to do, such as aiding and abetting female fracticide or designing better toilets for Rabbwah...

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

Thats because he is a bhindian...

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He walked out on the Queen to say his Asar prayers and used to take breaks from the UN meetings for them too.

so is that a huge deal?

i mean, any Muslim who prays regularly would do that, no?

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im sorry but what "conviction" exactly needs to be respected? the fact that he blindly followed the khalifa?

as a Muslim, we r only supposed to blindly obey Allah swt.

i dont have any respect for such convictions and neither should any other Muslim

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

^ 2006 ki post ka ab reply ker rahay hain ..: S

ps >jahan tak mera ilm hay ahl-e-sunnat wal jammat deoband Alim molana Anwar shah kashmiri kay hatoon Allma iqbal nay bait kee thee..or qaadiyaniat ko chor diya tha or is ka aylaan news paper main kia tha

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Re: Allama Family and its Associations with Qadianis

To be fair, whatever Lastofthedinosaurs views, the guy was asking some basic questions which you guys should address rather than claim him to be all sorts.

Re Allama Iqbal's position, this is a dispute that had once gained ground in the 50's when the Qadiani's would issue eddicts in their discourses as to the legitimacy of the intellectual basis for their faith being respected by non other than one of the founding father's of Pakistan and widely reputed Islamic icon of his time, Allama Iqbal no less. He was undoubtedly, whether detractors like it or not, an intellectual icon even in his own day.

Now a 1954 commitee had in fact declared that based on proof of his denouncement of the Qadiani 'traitors' as he called them, there is no question of him 'being' one, neither did he EVER claim to be one. Speculative conjecture can be forgiven if one considers he did speak respectfully of the 'actions' of the alleged 'Messianic Mahdi' Ghulam Ahmed in his topical debates with Christians BEFORE his sudden declaration of his Prophethood and Messiah'ship etc. But to this end, many scholars spoke well of Ghulam Ahmed's efforts to counter Christian propoganda in their country which was pursuing a strong evangelical conversion mission.

But Allama Iqbal himself denounced the Qadiani's not as a sect of Islam at all. In fact, he totally detached from Islam altogether ('Discourses of Iqbal', Sh. Ghulam Ali & Sons, 1979) as well as discussing their 'non Muslim Minority status' ('Qadianism on Trial', 1977, p190) to be considered.

He agreed with Maudoodi's position and I quote, "Dr. Iqbal himself had urged the Muslims not to recognize the Qadiani as a member of their community' "('Asian Journal of social science', Brill 2007, p596) which doesnt really leave any room for doubt!

The fact that our generation hears something and questions it, isnt bad OMG, I welcome such curiousity, in creates a need to educate ourselves better about issues and lay to rest the misconceptions spread by others on the ignorance we display of those subjects.

This is only mentioned because the Qadianis continue to allege his 'connection' with them through his condoning of their views, a view that was countered over half a century ago, but has sought to re emerge again hoping for better reception this time ;-)