All Things Adoption

Re: All Things Adoption

is he adopting from US or Pakistan?
US can be very tough, other muslim countries have many orphans but the adoption laws are mired in obsolete and misguided thinking, making it tough for the children to be adopted.
Pakistan, he can work with edhi, for new borns there is a wait list, ..because many adoptions are kept secret, older kids may be a bit easier timeline wise. process wise it helps to have a good support structure in pakistan because as far as I know, after you get the custody of the child it can take upto 6 months to get all paperwork done to take the child out of the country.

I knew other options, but they too have been closed once again. Defenders of the faith have closed international adoption because they feared kids were being adopted by people who were converting jus to adopt, and rather than come up with some better due diligence, they have decided that closing all adoption is the better option. sadly this is the same country where girls cant be found for adoption, because they are taken in by families to hand over to the maid to raise a maid for the next generation.

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This is just so sad.

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Lusi- this may explain my immense opposition to the illogical stance of people on this issue.

I will give credit where it is due, the new leader of the nation is really trying to solve the “petit bon” issue i.e. this officially sanctioned slavery of girls. and that is one positive outcome of this ban on adoptions.

My hope is that this is a temporary halt to figure out the requirements and due diligence better.

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Thank you for everyone’s comments.
X2-He is interested in adopting from Pakistan..and preferably a girl for the very same reason you mentioned :slight_smile:

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^ I would suggest that he contact edhi center and speak with mrs bilqees edhi directly. She can be a little abrasive but that is her way to scare off people who are not serious and to indicate to those with nefarious motives that she will personally evaluate each and every applicant.

girls are easier to adopt, because most people want boys. if he s looking for a girl who is not a new born that may even be quicker.

he will need to go through home study here, get international adoption permits in which he will have to indicate the age range of the child he wants to adopt. after bringing the child from Pakistan, he will have to readopt her here. for which he will have to pay two separate lawyers a guardian ad litiem for the child and his own lawyer to finalize adoption here. that part may vary by state. the process to get permission to adopt is detailed, involves local, state and federal background checks etc, and takes 6-9 months here

edhi center will want to see an approved homestudy and permission for international adoption etc, what you can do is reach out to them and tell them you are starting and would want to adopt as early as possible, keep them informed of progress etc. he will need to make trips to pakistan to start the process, and then stay there or come back, he will need to make arrangements for the child to be taken care of while he is not there since he will have custody but not the full approvals to take her out of the country.

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If your brother is looking to adopt a new born I greatly recommend that she be breastfed in order for her to become a mahram.
If his wife can’t breastfeed then maybe his sister can do it or another mahram in the family.

Whosoever is a Mahram through the relationship of lineage, will also be considered a Mahram by fosterage.

Allah (S.W.T.) states in the Quran:

“And (prohibited to you in marriage are) your foster-mothers and foster-sisters.” (Surah al-Nisa, 23)

Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said about Hamza’s daughter: “I am not legally permitted to marry her, as foster relations are treated like blood relations (in marital affairs). She is the daughter of my foster-brother.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2502)

Remember that the feedings should be a number of five feedings given under the age of 2.

And ALLAH knows best.

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Yes, because a father who adopts a daughter will one day end up…no you know what, no. Just…no.

Trust desis to turn something as noble as adoption into something gross and cruel. There shouldn’t be a debate about it, but…sadly…ah well.

It’s guess this thinking makes it seem that its just these Mehram rulings that prevent Muslim men from getting it on with their daughters and sisters and women getting it on with assorted males in the family …it seems. Not sure when and how religion got so fixated on sex.

Anyways coming back to the topic

1- I really don’t have an opinion on the establishment of Mehram bonds via nursing. If that is something that makes someone more comfortable, so more power to them.

2- However, by the advise given above, if the child he finds is more than 2 years old, please don’t have these strange notions prevent him from adopting.

3- On the other hand, if nursing for mehram status is that critical, then I have fantastic news…I am not sure about the under 2 year limit, because in that bastion of all that is holy and accurate, also known as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the following event indicates that nursing can take place at any age…as supported by a senior scholar, Shaikh Abdul Mohsin Bin Nasser Al Obaikan, member of Saudi Council of Senior Scholars and adviser to the king, using his own brilliant understanding of hadeeth to make this marvelous discovery..so read the article pasted below. ( Btw Another alternative is to be rational but I understand, that can not compete against expert rulings of Arab scholars…because…like..they know stuff duuude.. What can I say)

Riyadh: Saudi women plan to turn a controversial fatwa (religious ruling) to their advantage and launch a campaign to achieve their long-standing demand to drive in this conservative kingdom.
If the demand is not met, the women threatened to follow through the fatwa which allows them to breastfeed their drivers and turn them into their sons.
The campaign will be launched under the slogan: “We either be allowed to drive or breastfeed foreigners,” a journalist told Gulf News.
Amal Zahid said that their decision follows a fatwa issued by a renowned scholar which said that Saudi women can breastfeed their foreign drivers for them to become their sons.

“As every Saudi family needs a driver, our campaign will focus on women’s right to drive,” she said.
The controversial fatwa, which was regarded as both funny and weird, issued recently by Shaikh Abdul Mohsin Bin Nasser Al Obaikan, member of Saudi Council of Senior Scholars and adviser to the king, has sparked a debate in society.
The renowned scholar said Saudi women can breastfeed their foreign drivers for them to be become their sons and brothers to their daughters.
Under this relationship, foreign drivers can mix freely with all members of the family without breaking the Islamic rule which does not allow mixing of genders.
Breast milk kinship is considered to be as good as a blood relationship in Islam.
“A woman can breastfeed a mature man so that he becomes her son. In this way, he can mix with her and her daughters without violating the teachings of Islam,” the scholar said.
‘Ridiculous and weird’
Al Obaikan based his fatwa on a Hadith (saying) of the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) which was narrated by Salim, the servant of Abu Huzaifa.
Later, Al Obaikan clarified that his fatwa was being distorted by the local media which ignored the condition that the milk should be drawn out of the woman and given to the man in a cup to drink.
Speaking to Gulf News, a number of Saudi women condemned the fatwa. Fatima Al Shammary was quoted by the local Arabic daily Al Watan as saying the fatwa was “ridiculous and weird”.
“This fatwa has become a hot topic of debate among women. Is this is all that is left to us to do: to give our breasts to the foreign drivers?” she said.
Another Saudi woman, who spoke on condition of anonymity, questioned: “Does Islam allow me to breastfeed a foreign man and prevent me from driving my own car?
“I have not breastfed my own children. How do you expect me to do this with a foreign man? What is this nonsense?” she said.
Another woman said the fatwa should also apply to the husbands who should be breastfed by housemaids. By doing so, all will be brothers and sisters,” she said.
Hamid Al Ali, a journalist for an electronic newspaper, recalled that an Egyptian driver who had a crush on a female teacher he drives to school asked her to breastfeed him. When she retorted angrily, he said: “I want to be your son.”
Saudi writer Suzan Al Mashhadi sarcastically asked Al Obaikan: “Do the women have to breastfeed the driver in the presence of their husbands or can they do this alone?”
“Who will protect the wife if the husband entered the house unexpectedly and found his wife breastfeeding the driver?” she asked.

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I just don’t know what to say. I’ve been on this forum long enough to get a glimpse into the desi mentality of adoption–the fact that the very first things that come up are the mehram issue, giving the last name, and inheritance, all as a way to deter others from adoption…it makes me sad. Still remember the debate a long way back where quite a few argued that kids should rot in foster care/orphanages than to be adopted by non Muslims.

Well in that case some decided that keeping kids destitute and ripe for abuse but Muslim is better than giving them an escape route, a chance at a different life. And I ask today as I asked then…put up or shut up, either provide for those kids to be in institutional housing but with resources to study, with oversight and security to be protected from predators and abuse… Or let them go be whatever they will be, wherever they will be. Don’t hold them hostage to your love for faith, and losing them to a different faith, if you can’t take care of them.

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A person sick enough to perform such act would perform it regardless of anything. I can’t believe you even went in that direction.

In this way the adopted father would be a mahram, this person would actually have mahram siblings, cousins , uncles etc. all because of suckling.

Imagine telling the child , hey we’re all going for umrah but since you don’t have a mahram you can’t come along with us. Would that be fair?

All I have provided the whole time are Quranic verses and ahadith . Never once did I say : “I think”
It’s never about what we think.

You’re right, there really shouldn’t be a debate about this but it just shows how much eman we’re lacking that we go to the great extent of debating over Quranic verses and ahadith and rejecting them because of time having changed and because of our own useless opinions.

May Allah give us all hidaya.

…I was just adding that suckling does not have to be before the kid is two, as clearly declared in the fatwa by the Shaikh in the story I pasted above.

He is a senior member of the council of scholars and advisor to the king, who supported his stance with hadeeth and fiqh and tafseer so it must be right. Because without sheikhs and hadeeth and fiqh and tafseer and fatwas…what are we left with? Quran, logic and humanity…clearly not enough. I was going to argue against it but …" there really shouldn’t be a debate about this but it just shows how much eman we’re lacking that we go to the great extent of debating over Quranic verses and ahadith and rejecting them because of time having changed and because of our own useless opinions"

After all if grown men can be suckled to create a Mehram relationship then why can’t a child who is above two. I would rather not pollute that pristine line of reasoning by the Shaikh by my “own useless opinions”

Unless of course, I am missing some fine details where it is okay for a child under 2 and then a grown man, but 3-18 year old are excluded. I am not a scholar and would hate to “go to the great extent ofdebating over Quranic verses and ahadith and rejecting them because of time having changed and because of our own useless opinions”

Now if someone were to ask me, I would say that intent is the key and hypothetical future scenarios are just that..hypothetical future scenarios, and should not be drivers of decisions. Factor them in the approach if relevant but don’t use them to make decisions.

PS: cousins are Mehram? Crap.. Tell it to Desis who seem to specialize marrying their cousins. Mehram cousins…cool that’s new. I love learning new things.

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Definitely new thing for me too… :bummer:
I knew that Only Dad, bro, dada, nana, chacha and mamo is mehram… rest all cousins or khaalo, phuphaas are na mehram.. :hmmm:

Thanks for info **YOUNGMOM :hoonh:

**

You’re most welcome! My pleasure. I just shared my perspective. If you like to make an issue out of an non-issue. Be my guest.

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X2 (or anyone else): in your conversation with the Imam, did you happen to ask how the ruling of hijab plays out when it comes to adopted children? We’re assuming the children have not been suckled by the adopting mother / close female relatives

say a couple (who are particular about covering properly in front of non-mehrams) adopt a girl. Is the girl expected to observe hijab in front of the father when she reaches a certain age? similarly, if a boy was adopted then would the mother be expected to observe proper hijab when he reaches a certain age?

It is not an issue for us so we did not ask about it in our questions, so what I know is based on what I have read

If the people in question are particular about women covering everything except face and hands ..then yes, they will observe that with someone who is not a Mehram.

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^ thanks

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thou art welcome good sir/madam