Africa is dying of Capitalism, not AIDS

Well, a great discussion of the Pharma companies, but some real ignorance of disease prevention and control, which is as important as the drugs.

The spread of Aids and the survival under AIDS are dependent on a great number of things. First, the spread of AIDS in the Western world was slowed by a culture which acknowledged that prevention, ie, condom use, abstention, needle exchange programs, and public awareness, were as important as the drugs that cause the disease to go into remission.

In Africa every attempt at these very very basic life saving measures has been an abysmal failure. People continue to spread the disease through rampant sex, and all attempts to educate the participants have been fruitless. To then throw drugs at the people who were too ignorant to listen is even more foolish, and here is why: To get these miracle drugs to work properly, the drug regime must be followed to very precise standards. That means that at the exact times of the day a mixture of drugs must be injested in precise amounts. In trial studies most Africans failed to understand the precision that was required to get a remedial effect. The concept of timeliness that most Westerners take for granted is alien in some portions of the African culture. The drugs were often sold on the black market, and regular check ups were missed to further titrate the drugs. In many many areas diseases that are relatively unknown in the Western world and are easily cured such as Malaria are deadly killers, as there is virtually no medical infrastructure. Improper use of these life extending drugs can actually cause the virus to mutate FASTER, and soon the known effective regimes become ineffective.

Simply slapping around the Pharma companies may make great political fun, but it is so far removed from the medical realities in Africa and the possible solutions, that many of your comments are simply laughable. What will really save the African Continent is a vaccine. And for this all of humanity is deeply dependent on large pharmacy corporation research. Short of the discovery of a very simple to administer vaccine, things are very grim for those in Africa, with ignorance being the largest killing component, not capitalism.

Let the concerned world offer the company that first comes up with a vaccine a 10billion bonus and watch the capitalist system work! Streamline the human testing programs, and the testing paperwork required, and the cost of drugs will go down.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Short of the discovery of a very simple to administer vaccine, things are very grim for those in Africa, with ignorance being the largest killing component, not capitalism.

Let the concerned world offer the company that first comes up with a vaccine a 10billion bonus and watch the capitalist system work! Streamline the human testing programs, and the testing paperwork required, and the cost of drugs will go down.
[/QUOTE]

Capitalist system works! give me a break the greedy capitalist are working day and night so that third world countries cannot produce cheap medicines.

they are twisting the arms of african countries even intervening in South African Medical Laws and making changes.

No matter what the greedy capitalists say they cannot escape the fact they are denying cheap medicines to people who cannot afford to pay the extorianate prices of the Western Medicines.

If someone is dying of an illness education is the least of their worries, the greedy capitalists with mentality of $ first and human life a distant 2nd even deny they are doing anything wrong disgraceful the lame excuses they come up with!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
they are twisting the arms of african countries even intervening in South African Medical Laws and making changes.

[/QUOTE]

Can you please elaborate on where the South African Medical Laws were influenced?

"All relevant agencies of the US government have been engaged in an assiduous concerted campaign to persuade the government of South Africa to withdraw or modify the Medicines Act’.

Aids Care Before Drugs Profit

Fraudia they can do it independently However what is the incentive. The WTO aint ASEAN. Everything is accomplished in a collective manner. However the EU has started to take individual action. Sadly the US companies still dont help. CSR is lacking in the name of profits.

Patents are extremely developed country friendily. It gives them the ability to earn revenue and control technology flows and development to developing countries.

Fraudia i was refering to MS in the early 80s. Now its changed as it has market dominance. Linux is freeware and its a damn better statement because independents do work for the benefit of the community. Most viruses have difficulty attacking Linux systems. A freeware better than a patented device. IPRs had no affect on its development.

Those companies lose out. But according to WIPO, a majority of the world IPRs are now coming out of the developing countries and even though they have pathetic or no IPRs laws. The innovation and development is still happening. Macromedia and Flash technology or shockwave. Freeware originally.

Looking at from the development, trade, growth and basic humanitarian perspective there is no need for IPRs and thus (back on track) generics should be allowed to be produced to save human lives.

The basic question is fraudia: Do you believe that company profits are worth more than a human life.

If you support the right for companies to charge prices 3 times higher than that of Europe in an AIDS ridden continent, human life aint that important.

Originally posted by CM: *
**Fraudia they can do it independently However what is the incentive. *

what is the incentive? wait a sec here..i mean if US is so bad that it did nto agree with them..why do they NEED an incentive to do what they think is right?

However the EU has started to take individual action. Sadly the US companies still dont help. CSR is lacking in the name of profits.

well lets see how much action does EU take independently..

Patents are extremely developed country friendily. It gives them the ability to earn revenue and control technology flows and development to developing countries.

but when it comes to the people its the same isn't it. i have to pay high prices for patented drugs just like someone overseas has to pay high prices for patented drugs, as a matter of fact I pay more for prescription medicine than canadians.

. Macromedia and Flash technology or shockwave. Freeware originally.

originally..but why did they go and get patents and copyrights now. They had no altrusitic sense when they were freeware, but the goal was to build a critical mass of users..

The basic question is fraudia: Do you believe that company profits are worth more than a human life.

the basic answer is NO, and it was stated previously too where i plainly stated that I dislike the high prices by pharma companies.

However that is different from patent protection, I also believe that the companies which have invested in developing the drugs should have the ability to recoup their investments because that is the only way they will have the funds to invest in further research. Otherwise there would be companies with real solutions not seeking patent protection..

*If you support the right for companies to charge prices 3 times higher than that of Europe in an AIDS ridden continent, human life aint that important. *

I dont support them charging more in Europe, just as I dont support them charging more in US than they do elsewhere. US drugs cost less in many countries than in US, I had already given the example of Canada.

the point remains..if this freeware type approach was going to work, we would have seen many companies that would have sprouted up and developed drugs and not used patent protection. Why didn't they?

I mean an argument could be made from a busines sense that since this is not a cure but medication that the user would have to take for chronic condition, gaining market share is important and thus prices should be lowered to gain a larger number of users..

the whole critical mass deal for software is an entirely different business model, the issue of cost of production, capital investments required to produce, distribute etc does not factor in.

I do care for human lives, thats why i believe that companies must have incentives and ability to invest in the type of research that is needed to produce life saving treatments. Had these companies not invested heavily in reasearch, the treatments would not be there. If there was a more attractive alternative there would be successful companies which will have successful products that did not ever get patent protection.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *

Capitalist system works! give me a break the greedy capitalist are working day and night so that third world countries cannot produce cheap medicines.**

well the developing countries can work day and night to come up with their own solutions and their own treatments and show the free market economies that they dont need them.

heck boycott the countries and companies, develop own medicine. wait..what..there is no medicine developed there..

you know why...the capabilities are not there, and the investments are not there..whya re they not there..because the system does not reward them for their efforts.

Read this carefully people, it was written today by a physician in Uganda. Administering drugs in an improper fashion actually makes the disease stronger, and blaming patent holders reduces the amount of research money going into new and more effective drugs. And for those so inclined, drug research has nothing to do with Linux. Linux is an Anti-Microsoft phenomenon. Last I heard, Linux did not require billion dollar human trials.

Aids quick-fix won’t save Africa
January 7, 2004

By Dr John Kilama

Short-term relief followed by long-term disaster is not sound policy. Nonetheless, that could be a result of the Aids strategy being contemplated by the World Health Organisation, which on December 1 - World Aids Day - announced a plan to treat 3-million people with HIV/Aids by 2005.

The WHO is proposing that billions of dollars be spent on increasing access to anti-retroviral drugs. That is a noble intention.

However, it may not be the most cost-effective way to stem the tide of HIV/Aids: it may even be counterproductive.

Let’s be clear. Reducing the cost and increasing the supply of medicines to the poor is a good thing. But on its own it is not enough. Nor should it be today’s priority. The roots of Africa’s health care crisis run far deeper and broader than a mere shortage of drugs. Spending billions on drugs is likely to prove a disappointing waste.

In fact, without vast improvements to Africa’s health-care infrastructure, it could even make things worse.

For years well-intentioned people have claimed that Africa’s Aids problem has been aggravated by patent owners charging too much for medicines. In reality, few antiretroviral drugs have ever been on patent anywhere in Africa and there is no evidence to suggest that treatment has been any more accessible in countries with little or no patent protection, such as Mozambique or Somalia, than in countries where patents are in force.

Moreover, for several years the manufacturers of anti-retroviral drugs have offered their products at very steep discounts or even for free.

Nonetheless, activists continue to concentrate on this debate. The mistaken belief that increasing the supply of drugs will, of itself, control Africa’s Aids epidemic has, unfortunately, become received wisdom.

Pharmaceutical companies are being pressured to voluntarily license drugs to local suppliers. If they don’t comply, the activists demand that governments impose compulsory licences depriving the drug developers of any right to benefit from their investment.

By making the research-based pharmaceutical companies the scapegoat for the Aids crisis, activists have done the people of Africa a disservice, diverting attention from the realities of the situation as well as undermining investments in new drug development.

The hefty discounts and free medicines offered to poor countries by most companies suggest that profits from the developing world are not an essential part of their business strategies. But there is a real threat that drugs subject to compulsory licences in developing countries could undermine profits and the incentive to develop new drugs.

In the past year, several large hauls of Aids medicines produced by the patent owners and intended for sale at low prices in Africa have found their way back to Europe. If this can happen to medicines that are under reasonably strict controls, it isn’t difficult to imagine what will happen when the drugs are being produced and distributed by organisations that hold no allegiance to the company that developed them.

Developing a new drug is an expensive business, estimates put it at between $500 million (R3,2-billion) and $1-billion (R6,5-billion). If companies can’t recoup returns from the few drugs that they actually get to market, then they’re unlikely to make that investment.

Worryingly, there is growing evidence that drug companies are reducing their investment in anti-retrovirals - the number of new drugs in development has fallen almost 30% in the past three years. Though Aids can’t be cured, it is treatable, sometimes for years, but only if new drugs emerge for the large number of patients who build up resistance to their current regime of anti-retrovirals.

What Africa really needs is investment in its healthcare infrastructure. It needs to guarantee that patients comply with the requirements of their treatment. This involves both patient education and training programmes to help healthcare professionals and para-professionals monitor and promote compliance in rural areas. Yet Africa currently lacks the personnel and the infrastructure to do this.

There simply aren’t enough hospitals and clinics, especially in rural areas, to ensure effective delivery of medicines. Even those that do exist face severe staff shortages, often lacking qualified healthcare professionals.

Poor roads and transportation also hinder drug delivery. In Nigeria, huge consignments of drugs expired due to lack of effective controls and delivery procedures. Meanwhile, Botswana’s world-class treatment programme, run by a partnership between pharmaceutical company Merck and the Gates Foundation, faces continuing difficulties due to a dearth of health workers and the slower-than-expected pace of building clinics, laboratories and drug warehouses.

Africa also needs adequate regulatory supervision: formal mechanisms which ensure that drugs are not adulterated by the time they reach patients. African countries already suffer from dangerously high levels of drug counterfeiting, in some locales more than 80% of drugs are fake. Poor quality drugs are a threat to patients and will spread drug resistance.

The majority of the funds currently earmarked for Aids treatment should be spent on long-term programmes to address these essential facets of healthcare infrastructure.

Without such infrastructure, drugs, whatever the price, will be ineffectual, even counterproductive.

The WHO must be careful not to be seduced into squandering billions on a fashionable, but unobtainable, quick-fix solution.

Prevention of HIV/Aids used to be the WHO’s priority. And for good reason: the only way really to control the epidemic is through education and prevention.

In Uganda, my home, the government has halved the HIV infection rate in a decade through prevention.

http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=225&fArticleId=319615

These capitalist are truly shameless

they making excuses after excuses, it is so obvious they will do anything for the $ at the expense of human life.

Instead of posting the same reason of we invented "medicine" yeah right like thats true, your governments keep going on about global society and we are one people!

When in reality you are the greedy capitalists who would do anything for a quick buck which includes preventing medicine from reaching the sick and dying!

okay then have some altrustic people get together and develop medicine instead of depending on the cures that the free market system has to offer.

the cures are there because of the system in place. the same system which helped in developing these medicines. So I suppose its all well and good and system is good if it helps develop the treatments, but then the system is bad when it comes to how the treatments are distributed? you cant have it both ways.

as far as teh invention of medicine..well something was created by a company that did not previously exist, the company bought equipment, leased fascilitis, hired scientists and research staff etc etc..so yes ..that company did invent that treatment.

hey i would be perfectly okay if there are companies which do this research for altrustic reasons and run on public donations and then make their treatments available at cost.. it will lower my insurance costs down too..

someone said education is not important because people are dying and they need treatment..well i disagree, people are dying and they need treatment because they were not educated about this disease and how to prevent the spread of it. abuse of medication like this is going to create the same type of issues as abuse of anti biotics, it will become useless..and then what...

For those of you who do not have a medical backround, perhaps you may need further education.

Ever read the admonishment on the side of an antibiotic bottle that says, "Continue to take all prescribed doses even if symptoms do not persist"? There is a reason for this. Here is an example. Let us assume that you have a 7 day dosage of antibiotics to clear up an infection. Lets assume that you have 1mil "bugs" in your system before the antibiotic starts, and the antibiotic "kills" half of the bugs in your system each day.

By the end of day one you have 500,000 bugs
By the end of day two you have 250,000 bugs
By the end of day three you have 125,000 bugs
By the end of day four you have 62,500 bugs
By the end of day five you have 31,250 bugs
By the end of day six you have 15,625 bugs
By the end of day seven you have 7,812 bugs
Your body is generally able to kill off the rest.

Now if the antibiotic is stopped after day four, you still have 60k bugs left in your system, and guess what? They are among the STRONGEST and MOST DRUG RESISTANT bugs. If you then give this disease to a loved one, the loved one will be getting the nastiest versions of the bugs.

Now AIDS is HIGHLY mutagenic. Even with perfect compliance with the drug regimes, most patients will eventually grow virus that are resistant to the current drugs they are taking. If their virus count spikes they must switch drugs quickly to supress the newly mutated viruses.

AIDS patients can develop resistant viruses by skipping drug doses for as little as THREE days! By flooding Africa with anti-retro virals without insuring that those who take the drugs take them pricisely, you are simply insuring that all current drugs will be rendered ineffective very quickly, and breeding new and nastier versions of AIDS for all mankind. Since you have basically told the best and brightest researchers that they must provide the next miracle drug for free, it is very likely that no new drugs will become available, and the situation gets much much worse. Of course Africa is just the start, next you have India and China with case counts experiencing huge growth.

Never mind the fact that 90% of the AIDS patients in Africa are unaware that they even have the disease, and the spread of the disease is expanding far faster than any drug can be administered!

Well intentioned but politically driven advocates who don't understand diddly about epidemiology should get some education before shooting off their well intentioned but ignorant mouths.....

I'd like to some actual numbers, dollars spent on research and how much these companies are charging African countries (as well as American patents) for these drugs. Right now it's just empty anti- capitalism rhetoric, which doesn't do a whole lot for anyone here.

UTD,

Here is an eample of a German company that has offered a drug for free to South Africa, yet the South African Government has not distributed the drug. It reinforces the notion that the drugs are useless without a medical infrastructure to deliver them. Since most AIDS cases are undiagnosed, the drugs are the least of the problem, but have become a political pinata for every anti-capitalist. The world needs to develop an effective prevention proigram and system of clinics before worrying about the drugs.

S. Africa Sued for Failing To Distribute AIDS Drug

Associated Press
Wednesday, August 22, 2001; Page A14

JOHANNESBURG, Aug. 21 – Frustrated by the fact that hundreds of South African babies are born with HIV every day, AIDS activists and doctors sued the government today demanding that it distribute a drug that could cut that number by half.

By refusing to make the AIDS drug nevirapine widely available to pregnant women infected with the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) which causes AIDS, the government is denying women and children their constitutional right to health care, according to the suit filed with the Pretoria High Court by the Treatment Action Campaign, an umbrella group of AIDS activists.

The move is the first major legal challenge to force South Africa’s government to provide AIDS medication.

The group has been trying to persuade the government for nearly four years to provide medication to prevent transmission of HIV during childbirth, said Mark Heywood, secretary of the Treatment Action Campaign.

The German drug company Boehringer Ingelheim has offered nevirapine free to developing countries for the prevention of mother-to-child transmission of HIV, but South Africa has yet to accept the offer.

An estimated 4.7 million South Africans, about 11 percent of the population, are infected with HIV. About a quarter of babies born to HIV-infected women will become infected during childbirth, according to studies. A single dose of nevirapine to the mother during labor followed by a dose to the baby shortly after birth can reduce the transmission rate to about 13 percent.

A widespread nevirapine program that could save 20,000 babies a year would cost less than $30 million, the Treatment Action Campaign said.

The government recently announced it would begin two pilot programs in each of the country’s nine provinces to monitor the effect of the nevirapine treatment. But the Treatment Action Campaign estimates the pilot programs will reach only 10 percent of the women who need the medicine.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A43435-2001Aug21&notFound=true

This website might be helpful, I've just taken a glace at it, perhaps someone else can scan over it and pull out the relative info.

thats right reduce human life in terms of dollars, dimes, nickels and pennies.

And time spent in labs :mad2:

the values people hold are truly coming to the forefront for all to see!

Thanks for the articles OG and setting the record stright.

ak47, perhaps the communal world you’re looking for is in the next life but until then you are stuck in reality where resources are limited.

"thats right reduce human life in terms of dollars, dimes, nickels and pennies.

And time spent in labs

the values people hold are truly coming to the forefront for all to see!"

Dude, you are an emotional train wreck. You could throw money at this problem all day long and not do a lick of good. Governments need to change. Prevention programs need to be endorsed. Detection and testing programs need to be enhanced. Your tunnel vision approach to this problem is one of the reasons that the problems persist. Solving an epidemic is far more complicated than flinging drugs at patients. Countries that have spent their money on public education FIRST, then treating the effected have had huge success, and present an effective model for success.

So how exactly will free drugs help when the 90% of those with the disease are undiagnosed? The 10% who are diagnosed MIGHT be helped, but you are grossly underestimating the effectiveness of the drugs. The drugs themselves are only marginally effective. They give the patient a THIN advantage. So long as this thin advantage is maintained the patient can survive. In large cities there is some hope that the medical infrastructure can be built and maintained to save diagnosed patients.

By pounding on the drugs as the key problem you are implying that if only the drug companies would release the drugs free of charge, the problem would be solved. The problem of AIDS in sub-saharan Africa is so acute that crop harvests are being effected, and feeding the non-effected populations will soon become a problem.

Do us all a favor, when you start a thread like this, get a little educated first.... Stop your fuming little smilies and get rational.....

Not completely correct as things stand today.

The ammended Medicines Act makes provision for the government to import generic medicines in the case of an emergency and to bypass the patent rights on these medicines 9when Government has declared a State of Emergency). It was never intended to nilly-willy impair the patent rights of pharmaceutical firms.

Some pharmaceutical firms did take the Act to the Suppreme Court. Before a decision was made, because of tremendous pressure from various quarters, the pharmaceutical companies dropped their case and made their drugs available at a minimal cost to the government.

Even though the SA government “won” the battle, they refused to give the free anti-aids drugs to the people until forced to do so by the selfsame court. Thabo “Stupid” Mbeki always insisted that anti-retroviral drugs can’t help in the aids epidemic as there is no such thing as an HIV-virus.

Thus: The pharmaceutical companies has been bending over backwards in trying to provide the drugs in SA as cheap as possible (see attached link) while the SA Government are dragging their feet.

No use to carry on blaming the pharmaceutical companies or stating the misleading/historical link.

Also see ths

BTW: Good to see Ohioguy is reading my newspapers! :slight_smile:

By the way, there is a great web site for AIDS education, in addition to AIDS.org. The Body.com has a great question and answer section for AIDS patients. I have sampled one here to show how difficult management of retro-viral:

Question:

Dr. Cohen, I’m a bit concerned. My AZT/3TC/Viramune regimen stopped working after only about six months. The doctor wants to change me to viread/kaletra/? My last t-cell count reading was 300. Would it be better to delay treatment for a while? I’m afraid of using up all my alternatives too quickly.

Answer:

Well - first it helps to address what went wrong.

What happened that the AZT/3TC/Viramune stopped working after just 6 months? This combination has been studied over the years - and usually - certainly over half the time - results in viral suppression for well more than a year. So - what contributes to the other half of the time when it doesn’t last? There are the obvious problems - like side effects leading to stopping - but you don’t mention any. Then there are problems with erratic adherence - this can be a big factor to address - since if erratic adherence to this pretty simple combo led to its failure with viral escape – we must address the adherence challenge before starting again - so we don’t burn through more alternatives as you note.

What else could have led to such early failure? There can be pre-existing virus resistance in some who have HIV. Meaning even before you took any antivirals - the virus you acquired came from someone whose virus already had resistance to one or more of the meds you took - giving your virus a head start in “ignoring” this combination. This has been seen in anywhere from 5 to 25% percent of people who have never been treated - this varies in likelihood depending on many factors including how long you’ve had HIV infection. Getting a resistance test even at this point might have some useful info to see what to do next…

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/Switching/Current/Q153263.html

As you can see, what drugs to use, how to use them and when to use them is a remarkably complicated question for both the patient and the doctor. It requires sophistcated testing, and very up to date information on treatment modalities. To re-emphasize my previous points, simply throwing drugs at AIDS patients is very marginally effective without the rest of the knowledge and healthcare infrastructure to support the patient.