Re: Achakzai's speech
The ruling elite is everywhere. It's another thing if you have commie/ultra-leftist inclinations.
Re: Achakzai's speech
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Your argument is odd Amorphous..if all people and regions were treated equally nobody would be complaining on the basis of caste or region and if they were..in that case you'd have a point. If you go to America or Britain and ask someone where are you from they say "I am from x,y,z region or county"..when they travel outside they say I am an American or British citizen. Why does self pride offend pro establishment people so much?
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Zakk, the 'complainants' in this case have been complaining since last 60 years...even when there were no developmental issues. Prior to that they were playing their part in 'complaint chorus' led by congress. Their problem is Pakistan and not the lack of development in any area. As far as genuine grievances of the people are concerned - and there are many genuine grievances- you would probably find me in agreement with you. More money should be spent on those areas until private enterprise grows roots deep enough to sustain and speed up economic progress. I agree that the system of governance (military/civil/level of autonomy) also plays a part in the development of the deprived regions. Ordinary people should feel empowered.
If I go to America, I may run into people who are proud of their roots. But I don't find many Latinos or even illegal immigrants calling upon the US government to return California, Arizona,Texas etc. to Mexico only because USA is an 'artificial state' which annexed 'Mexican territories.'
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On a side note..your comment about Mush was quite telling..treason is acceptable if the person quits his uniform and contests an election after the fact... the extent to which some people wish pakistan to go for america would be considered treason as well
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Yes that's unfortunate. We have to accept people who lead a small rally in some part of Pakistan and call upon their supporters: 'Aap ko Pakistan ke qeid se azad hona hei'. I didn't demand anyone to hang them. I didn't demand guillotine for Iltaf, Shehbaz, some sardar sahib or JI thugs who could be involved in subversive activities against the state, extrajudicial killings, alliances with the enemies of the state and costitutional, social or political ghunda gardi in the country. Military generals seem to have done their part in defacing constitution.
I am not ready to accept Musharraf as a military leader, but I would consider casting my ballot in his favor if he gives up his uniform. I just don't support subversive activities -the activities that would harm the state more than even any Musharraf defacing the constitution- to dethrone 'the king'. Musharraf should quit his unifrom and let the people decide whether they want him or somebody else in the 2007 election. The chances are that people from my region will want someone else. But I don't claim to speak for 'my' people. I could be wrong.
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You see this is where I differ with you, yes other countries practice double standards in foreign policy, yes other countries manufactured the OBL's and the likes of this world...but not many countries manipulate their own system and people the way the establishment does in Pakistan and then refuse to accept blame for it at the same time
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I kind of agree with you that our governments, civil or military, have been manipulative. However American, British and many other governments seem to have surpassed manipulative capacity of our establishment at least in the recent past. Anyhow, that's not an excuse to be more manipulative. Then we have manipulation of many kinds in country. Not all of them are establishment tools. My plea is that when a British/American poster states that Pakistani system is working against women of the country, they should also mention the rape case indictment rates of their own countires so that when next time US house of representatives discontinue any aid for Pakistan -no matter how insignificant or symbolic it is- on these grounds, we could tell them to do the same to their allies in Middle East and Europe where the failure of any system could be more severe.
Zakk, a few things I have talked about are not in direct reply to your posts. Sometimes I don't want to contribute to every thread and it's easier (not for the reader though) to speak your mind in one post/thread. Sorry for that!
Re: Achakzai’s speech
K, that’s the attitude that pushes some people like me to act pro-establishment. Why should I look to east for inspiration? I don’t get it. We can learn a lot from a number of countries even India, but to present them as a role model is beyond my comprehension. Not because I consider them evil or something but because India is simply not a model country. Don’t listen to the ‘elitists’ or pro-establishment people like me. But neither should you rely on the social or economic ‘facts’ that Indian establishment tells us. I’m sure you know who Arundhati Roy is. The author of ‘The God of small things’. Dig up her latest interviews in which she discussed Indian ‘economic progress’ and the law and order situation there. Find out for yourself.
Indian democracy only for “rich and elite”: Arundhati Roy
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1651735.cms
Re: Achakzai's speech
Fine, don't look at India as a role model. There are many other countries that are successful and vast majority of them are democratic. So look toward democracy and let's get rid of this bloated army autocracy that is feeding on us like vampires. Why can't the provicnes have the same rights like for instance the US states have? Is US a weaker country because of it? Tell me why Islamabad does not want to share power?
Re: Achakzai's speech
Your guess is as good as mine. Another guess of mine is that you're richer and more privileged than me. :)
Re: Achakzai's speech
I think we are ready for another border test. This time due East. OK KK, let's do this one more time. Stand on the border of Sindh and look over on the other side. See how many people are living 10 times (heck even 2 times) better than the ones on this side.
Then take a train, plane, or automobile and visit Punjab. Stand on the border of Punjab, and tell us how 10 times (heck even 2 times) better than their counterparts on this side of the border.
Pound for pound, banda for banda (person), man for man, woman for woman, People on West side of Pak-Bharat border are doing either the same or better. Pick prosperity, or pick freedom if Pakistan is not doing more than Bharatis, it ain't doing less either.
Again I refer to my earlier post, I urge my Urdu People community to go live in Bharat (that has better future and better economy) and see how our cousins are doing in UP and Bihar. Do they have bigger houses than what UP community has in Pakistan? Do Bharati UPite cousins have bigger cars, better schools, better clothing, then I accept the loss of my argument.
Compare UP potato (with an e) in Karachi with a potato in Bharati UP.
Compare Pakistani Punjabi orange with Bharati Punjabi orange,
Compare Pakistani Pashtoon banana with Afghani Pashtoon banana,
Compare Pakistani Balochi apple with Iranian Balochi apple,
That would be fair apple to apple comparison and not your self-styled apple to orange one.
If anything, Bharati Punjabis are looking up to Pakistani Punjabis for their wealth, health, and prosperity.
If anything Bharati UPites are looking up to Pakistani UPites's health, wealth, and prosperity.
If anything Iranian Balochis are looking up to Pakistani Balochi's freedom, health, and wealth.
And I am not going to compare Afghan Pashtoon's health with his cousins on the East side of border. People will blame my comparison as anti-Pashtoon. Why because they will run out of arguments and then run to the mods, crying mommy, mommy, mommy.
Re: Achakzai's speech
antiobl, Pakistan could be better than many countries. Let's make it even better than that.. I put K's question to you..
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Why can't the provicnes have the same rights like for instance the US states have? Is US a weaker country because of it? Tell me why Islamabad does not want to share power?
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Is it a good model for Pakistan?
Re: Achakzai's speech
Absolutely! However it is important to note that in Pakistan we don't have a magic wand that would allow us to become a little UK island in the middle of Iran, China, Afghanistan, and Bharat. Whatever we achieve, will be somewhat limited by our environment.
So for Allah's sake, appreciate what we got, love it, nurture it, and it will surely beceom more prosperous. Ameen!
*Why can't the provicnes have the same rights like for instance the US states have? Is US a weaker country because of it? Tell me why Islamabad does not want to share power? * Is it a good model for Pakistan?
It is a good question off course. We must remember though what Gen. Sherman did to Hotlanta (Atlanta) after civil war. Even the American way of state's rights didn't portect Southern rebels, or fast forward to Waco, or Ruby ridge.
The bottom line is that American Federal government utterly destroys anyone who challenges the writ of Washington DC.
Look what happened to $tupid @rse David Koresh.
I am all for rights to Sindh, Balochistan, Pashtoonistan, and Punjab. Heck everyone should be happy and that would make Pakistan stronger.
However people like Achakzai, ghoonda-zai, divide-zai should not lead that effort. They are Soviet era leftie dinosaurs.
If the likes of Zakk, LoTD, or TRD want to get more rights for the states, my prayers are with them. But the rights must be negotiated after providing peace, and equal access to the provinces for the people of Pakistan.
If an Afridi or a Waziri is welcome to come buy a plot in Karachi, build a house, show off his AK-47 etc. then every pakistani should be allowed by the Waziris to go buy a plot and build a house in Miran Shah. No violence, no militancy period.
If anyone wants American style rights for states, they must be ready for American style Federal Joota (shoe) in case of militancy.