A Response to Those Who Slander the Companions - radhiAllaahu anum

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*Originally posted by Degas: *

Its ur thoughts and I respect them..u have all right to believe that but I cant... In my view those great personalities are human beings and they can make mistakes but as we know that it was only due to their strength of character aand not due to their inability to do mistakes that make them great!

So if e believe trhat Hazrat ALI (RA) named his 6th son as Umer and 10th Usman since they were common names , did he did bayt to those great personalities since it was common to do that in those days..

And why it was common in those days to name Umar, Usman etc but not now for shias! What have u found out these days that Hazrat ALI(RA) couldnt . As far as my info is concerned Hazrat ALI (RA) was in great position to judge them than u or me after so long!
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LOL they are from the Ahle-bait are free from any impurtity go and read Koran man,

Hazrat Ali(as) was forced to give bait, go and read your own hadiths before saying anything

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*Originally posted by Ya ali madad: *

LOL they are from the Ahle-bait are free from any impurtity go and read Koran man,

Hazrat Ali(as) was forced to give bait, go and read your own hadiths before saying anything
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U are clearly making a misunderstanding between sin and mistakes.. and I dont believe Sher-e-Khuda can be forced to make bayt.. rule of Hazrat Umer (RA) is a model of social justice and advancement for muslim ummah.. I dont know where ur belief would be if u take out hate and venom from it.. as a muslim I am obliged to pray Allah and Muhammad (PBUH) taught me rest.. rest of it dont matter to any except those who want hate as their religion..

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*Originally posted by Degas: *

U are clearly making a misunderstanding between sin and mistakes.. and I dont believe Sher-e-Khuda can be forced to make bayt.. rule of Hazrat Umer (RA) is a model of social justice and advancement for muslim ummah.. I dont know where ur belief would be if u take out hate and venom from it.. as a muslim I am obliged to pray Allah and Muhammad (PBUH) taught me rest.. rest of it dont matter to any except those who want hate as their religion..
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Because he did not want ANY FASAD in the ummah, that's why he did not anything, do u want me to open the history for u??? There are your own hadiths which confirm this. And get it out of your mind that the Ahle-bait did any mistakes OR could have done mistakes, prophet Mohammad(PBUH) was one of the ahle-bait did he make any mistakes, tell me???????

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*Originally posted by Ya ali madad: *

Because he did not want ANY FASAD in the ummah, that's why he did not anything, do u want me to open the history for u??? There are your own hadiths which confirm this. And get it out of your mind that the Ahle-bait did any mistakes OR could have done mistakes, prophet Mohammad(PBUH) was one of the ahle-bait did he make any mistakes, tell me???????
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Dont get emotional..if Hazrat Ali (RA) didnt want that why u want it now!!!

Vast majority of muslims dont believe ur concept of masoomiat and imamat.. there is basic distinction between prophets of God and rest of humans.. many shias I know believe Ali (RA) as something closer to prophethood or even received reveletion.. dont mix Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) with any other person..

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*Originally posted by Degas: *

Dont get emotional..if Hazrat Ali (RA) didnt want that why u want it now!!!

Vast majority of muslims dont believe ur concept of masoomiat and imamat.. there is basic distinction between prophets of God and rest of humans.. many shias I know believe Ali (RA) as something closer to prophethood or even received reveletion.. dont mix Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) with any other person..
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I don't know in the which wonderland u live, the problem is that Hazrat Mohammad(PBUH&HF) is ONE OF THE AHLE_BAIT, IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT OR WHAT, AND AHLE BAIT DON'T MAKE ANY MISTAKES GO ASK YOUR MOLVIS. HAZRAT ALI(AS) RECEIVED RELAVETIONS LOLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZ, THIS IS A NEW ONE BY SUNNIS.
I DON'T LIKE DEBATING WITH IGNORANT PPL LIKE YOU.

AKAAL HAI TO SUNNI NAHI, SUNNI HAI TO AKAAL NAHI
Ismail sahab, one of the prominent sunni who is now a SHIA

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*Originally posted by Ya ali madad: *

I don't know in the which wonderland u live, the problem is that Hazrat Mohammad(PBUH&HF) is ONE OF THE AHLE_BAIT, IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT OR WHAT, AND AHLE BAIT DON'T MAKE ANY MISTAKES GO ASK YOUR MOLVIS. HAZRAT ALI(AS) RECEIVED RELAVETIONS LOLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZ, THIS IS A NEW ONE BY SUNNIS.
I DON'T LIKE DEBATING WITH IGNORANT PPL LIKE YOU.

AKAAL HAI TO SUNNI NAHI, SUNNI HAI TO AKAAL NAHI
Ismail sahab, one of the prominent sunni who is now a SHIA
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This continuation of nabuwaat after Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) as ur professing is just a concept made up by some people .. dont try to thrust ur limited understanding on vast majority of muslims who respect Sahabas .. how can I believe in some faith which would tumble just by not hating some people.. try to follow great Hazrat Ali (RA) ands name ur kids as Umer and Usman as he did..but u wont do it since ur misguided by soem who created hate amd misunderstandings... and never assunme Hazrat Ali (RA) sher-e-Khuda could be forced by any one..

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*Originally posted by Degas: *

This continuation of nabuwaat after Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) as ur professing is just a concept made up by some people .. dont try to thrust ur limited understanding on vast majority of muslims who respect Sahabas .. how can I believe in some faith which would tumble just by not hating some people.. try to follow great Hazrat Ali (RA) ands name ur kids as Umer and Usman as he did..but u wont do it since ur misguided by soem who created hate amd misunderstandings... and never assunme Hazrat Ali (RA) sher-e-Khuda could be forced by any one..
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Degas,

Imam Ali (as) was forced because he found the majority following the ruling class. This led to his isolation. Since an Imam at all times serves Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh), the Imam (as) decided to make peace with the ruling class and so be able to spread the correct teachings of islam amongst the ppl.

As such, the situation forced the Imam (as) into making a compromise as the holy prophet (pbuh) had instructed Ali (as) not to shed bloodshed after his demise as he knew the ppl's intentions when they refused to give him something to write on at his death bed.

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*Originally posted by Degas: *

This continuation of nabuwaat after Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) as ur professing
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Degas,

Do not spread intentional lies. No one is claiming nabuwaat after the holy prophet (pbuh).

Be wary of yr choice of words and refrain from mischief.

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*Originally posted by Gandalf: *
Be wary of yr choice of words and refrain from mischief.
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ur feeling are mutual..ur silence when Ya Ali Madad slanders and curses tells the whole story!

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*Originally posted by Gandalf: *

Degas,

Imam Ali (as) was forced because he found the majority following the ruling class. This led to his isolation. Since an Imam at all times serves Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh), the Imam (as) decided to make peace with the ruling class and so be able to spread the correct teachings of islam amongst the ppl.

As such, the situation forced the Imam (as) into making a compromise as the holy prophet (pbuh) had instructed Ali (as) not to shed bloodshed after his demise as he knew the ppl's intentions when they refused to give him something to write on at his death bed.
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About 2 billion muslims still love and highly regard personalities u call ruling class.. and yes they rules with Quran and Sunnah.. and any immpartial history u can read will tell the justice system they formed.. why did Islam spread with such vigior under the same ruling class.. how much u lament those we love those Sahabas.. dunno who misguided u..Hazrat Ali (RA) highly respected those too.. may be he wasnt happy with Caliphate but religiously he was satisfied since Hazrat Ali (RA) could turn his face away when law of Allah and Rasool were not implemented..

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*Originally posted by Ya ali madad: *

And get it out of your mind that the Ahle-bait did any mistakes OR could have done mistakes, prophet Mohammad(PBUH) was one of the ahle-bait did he make any mistakes, tell me???????
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That's because he was Allah's Prophet & Messenger, not because he belonged to a particular family.

Iqbal

Gandalf, what happened to your "all the commentators unanimously agree" and who is the "first Muslim" arguments? Have you jumped ship on them because your cut-and-paste deception was found out? I don't blame you personally, probably because you've never read the books that you pretended to quote from, however, the blame i guess falls squarely at the feet of the sites where you lifted these excerpts from. You weren't to know that you were being misinformed and sold half-truths. Never mind.

As for the hadith you've selected from Bukhari - again, i wonder how much thought you've really put into it? Have you, for example, collected all the narratives of this hadith to get a complete picture of what the Prophet (s) was actually saying? Do you even know where those other narratives can be found? Have you looked at the linguistic terms the Prophet (s) used in describing the "ashab" that he was referring to? Do you even care? Did you notice the Prophet (s) using the term "asyihab" in some of these traditions (also in al-Bukhari); this term explaining the meaning of his use of "ashab" in other narratives? That phrase shows that these hadith relate to nothing more than a "paltry few" individuals compared to the massive-majority of the Companions, may Allah be well-pleased with them all.

For your information, as many a commentator clarified centuries before you were born, it refers to those few who at first believed but then apostated soon after the Prophet's (s) death and remained on disbelief. It includes those who apostated and refused to pay zakah during the caliphate of Abu Bakr (r) - they were fought on that account. It includes those weak minded bedouins who joined the ranks of the false prophet Musaylima. It includes the descendents of the man who accused the Prophet (s) of not being fair in his distribution of the war booty. The khawarij, as the Prophet (s) predicted, arose from him. You may have noticed that a common denominator found among all these groups is that they hated and fought against the Prophet's (s) Companions both physically and verbally, much like you and your friends are now doing. Makes you think doesn't it? So rather than deceiving yourself into thinking that the hadith applies to others, you might want to reflect on whether you are in effect pointing the finger at none other than your own self.

Sadly for you, the hadith doesn't at all relate to the Companions of the Prophet (s) that you want to disparage. I know how much of a disappointment that must be to you.

After describing the sacrifices made by the Companions, Allah says:

{And those who come after them say: Our Lord! forgive us and those of our brethren who who were before us in the faith, and do not allow any spite to remain in our hearts towards those who believe, our Lord! surely Thou art Kind, Merciful.} (59:10)

Better to ask forgiveness and have good opinion of those who preceded you in faith rather than offering them your good deeds on a plate by disparaging them.

And Allah is the one who grants success.

Iqbal

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*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
It includes those who apostated and refused to pay zakah during the caliphate of Abu Bakr (r) - they were fought on that account. It includes those weak minded bedouins who joined the ranks of the false prophet Musaylima. It includes the descendents of the man who accused the Prophet (s) of not being fair in his distribution of the war booty. The khawarij, as the Prophet (s) predicted, arose from him. You may have noticed that a common denominator found among all these groups is that they hated and fought against the Prophet's (s) Companions both physically and verbally, much like you and your friends are now doing. Makes you think doesn't it? So rather than deceiving yourself into thinking that the hadith applies to others, you might want to reflect on whether you are in effect pointing the finger at none other than your own self.

Sadly for you, the hadith doesn't at all relate to the Companions of the Prophet (s) that you want to disparage. I know how much of a disappointment that must be to you.

Iqbal
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Hypocrits also include those that refused to join Usama's army, those that refused to give the prophet (pbuh) pen and paper when he asked for it at his death bed, those that left the dead body of the prophet (pbuh) before his burial and went to saqifah to decide upon thier caliphate, those that waged wars against the Imam (as), those that questioned the prophet's (pbuh) judgement on several occassions, those that stole Fadak from Fatima (as), those that squandered wealth and strengthened the Umayad dynasty, those that spoke rudely to the prophet (pbuh)....

You will find Hazrat Abu Baker, Umar, Usman, and Aisha in this group.

As for the true sahabahs such as Ammar bin Yasir, Miqdad, Ibn Abbas, Abuzer Ghafari, Salman Farsi, and many others, their rich reward is with Allah (swt).

We are not here to disparage any companions - only recognize the truthful from the hypocrits. Lest we follow the hypocrit unknowningly.

ws

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*Originally posted by Gandalf: *

**

We are not here to disparage any companions - only recognize the truthful from the hypocrits. Lest we follow the hypocrit unknowningly.**
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Before you continue your crusade to separate "hypocrites" from the truthful, you might first actually learn to spell the word, lest you unknowingly label as hypocrites those who Allah and His Messenger (s) called truthful.

{Truly the flimsiest of houses is the spider's house - if they but knew.} (29:41)

Iqbal

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Gandalf: *

You will find Hazrat Abu Baker, Umar, Usman, and Aisha in this group.

We are not here to disparage any companions - only recognize the truthful from the hypocrits. Lest we follow the hypocrit unknowningly.

ws
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Can u tell which of ur Imam told u to do this mission of awarding hypocricy medals to sahabas of Prophet (PBUH) .. If Hazrat Ali (RA) himself recognized and did bayt to those and even named his sons after them.. and their rules are examples of social justice and true Islamic law... then who asks u to do things neither Hazrat Ali (RA) did nor any other at that time.. petty issues of everday nature were exploited for political reasons long after.. its not part if Islam .. we are muslims to pray Allah according to message given by Holy Prophet (PBUH).. all rest is nothing.. ur making some people deotas or deities dont affect any muslim.. no one is important after Prophet (PBUH) .. all are human beings.. and all will be judges by Allah alone..