A Pacifist Uncovered- Ghaffar Khan [Split discussion]

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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So that was the mistake of the Pakistanis eh? They were wearing chappals...I suppose thier Taliban "Commanders" were wearing Gucci shoes and a cK Burqa? The true colours come out here...I suppose a scorpion will find almost any excuse to sting be it chappals or colour of skin.

I think the heat has finally reached its peak. I said carrying, not wearing, and it was just a general remark nothing else. Hold on to your horses, you are acting too violent for a civilized citizen of Pakistan.

Again a reference to history would be useful. If you read you will find out that The Quaid e Azam made an agreement with the Tribals to let them be autonomous and troops were pulled out of the Tribal areas. I am sorry I am not going to waste my time giving history lessons. Read up some history know the facts and then come back and discuss.

That little piece of scrap don’t matter no more since the current Pakistani regime has no regards to it or respect towards it. Today Pakistan is about to break many of the rules agreed upon. And if it continues, then there will be no more of an agreement. Btw, the agreement still says, NO PAKISTANI LAW IN OUR AREAS.

These are exactly the kind of gems I am referring to above. Maybe Syed Saleem Shehzad had a wet dream about this one but I would like to know the other "scholars" who said this.

There are so many kochiya, try typing in google “Pakistan a failed state”. For a quick reference try Stephen Philip Cohen.

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If it isn't good old uncle Fraudi! Shaloom to you too.

[QUOTE]
yeah and look at the tremendous development those areas have made. I mean theya re miniature silicon valleys. essentially they look like blackholes of ignorance, tribalism and narrow mindedness in the region
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Let us not forget the state sponsored Jihadism that comes from there, and the state supported drug trafficking. Many of their great achievements are due to because of the nation no Pakistan. If they are black holes, Pakistan helped in creating those black holes. If they are narrowminded, Pakistan helped in maintaining it that way. Not only did Pakistan murder and jailed many of the educated, secular, and civilized sons of those areas who were about to bring a change but Pakistan helped declared them traitors, and Hindu loving kafirs. Oh yes :- )

[QUOTE]
and yer beloved afghanistan is second only to switzerland..right. afgganistan is not really even a state anymore, but more like a gang ghetto with assorted warlords controllign diff parts of the hood.
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Haray yaar who helped maintained the beautiful ghetto it is? Who helped Taliban, who helped Hekmatyar, who helped Rabanni and Masood for which he later exploded bombs in Islamabad, who supported Arabs and foreign fighters to who you proudly provided ‘technical’ support, moral support, and weapons?

Are we playing lets act dumb?

23

[QUOTE]
I think the heat has finally reached its peak. I said carrying, not wearing, and it was just a general remark nothing else. Hold on to your horses, *you are acting too violent for a civilized citizen of Pakistan. *
[/QUOTE]

That is exactly my point. Why was it there even as a general comment? What consequence do chappals have to the discussion at hand? Did you see me make a "general comment" about naswar? The last comment also seems like an unsucessful attempt at being clever. Try harder.

[QUOTE]
That little piece of scrap don’t matter no more since the current Pakistani regime has no regards to it or respect towards it. Today Pakistan is about to break many of the rules agreed upon. And if it continues, then there will be no more of an agreement. Btw, the agreement still says, NO PAKISTANI LAW IN OUR AREAS.
[/QUOTE]

Wake up call. They are not your areas. You are Afghan. You were begging at the border post to be let in aur abb aagaye thekedar bannay kay liyay. Secondly why don't you find that piece of scrap and quote the exact lines where it says the above?

[QUOTE]
There are so many kochiya, try typing in google “Pakistan a failed state”. For a quick reference try Stephen Philip Cohen.
[/QUOTE]

Stephen Cohen? You gotta be kidding me. Are you sure you couldn't find any from AB Vajpayee. How about we do a google search of "Pakistan a failed state" and "Afghanistan a failed" state and see which one gets more hits hmm? But oh no boo hoo hoo that is all Pakistan's fault too.

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That is exactly my point. Why was it there even as a general comment? What consequence do chappals have to the discussion at hand? Did you see me make a "general comment" about naswar? The last comment also seems like an unsucessful attempt at being clever. Try harder.

What was the burqa comments all about, now honk like a donkey and say that it was devine just like most of the crap you have stated.

Wake up call. They are not your areas. You are Afghan. You were begging at the border post to be let in aur abb aagaye thekedar bannay kay liyay. Secondly why don't you find that piece of scrap and quote the exact lines where it says the above?

And here it is the hidden hate. Pakistan looks up very proudly to Afghans like Abdali, Ghori and Suri son, they protect your nation. Don’t be so biased towards Afghan now. They make 140+ million Pakistanis very proud.

Yes, I am Afghan and I have said it before and I will say it again. Every Pakhtun is an Afghan.

Ta ghor nekeh yu spay wo de farangi makh ta, oss de Pakhtun makh ta jorat laray che teez wachaway. Kho de angraiz makh ta awal spee wae os’em spee yay. Khudai mo taso khunday julagano na klass ka :- )

Stephen Cohen? You gotta be kidding me. Are you sure you couldn't find any from AB Vajpayee. How about we do a google search of "Pakistan a failed state" and "Afghanistan a failed" state and see which one gets more hits hmm? But oh no boo hoo hoo that is all Pakistan's fault too.

Hey you asked for a name I gave you one. Don’t need to whine like a lil girl now.

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[QUOTE]
Ta ghor nekeh yu spay wo de farangi makh ta, oss de Pakhtun makh ta jorat laray che teez wachaway. Kho de angraiz makh ta awal spee wae os’em spee yay. Khudai mo taso khunday julagano na klass ka :- )
[/QUOTE]

Mods perhaps someone else can translate this fully, but this does qualify as abusive language against another user. I hope you will do the needful. Thanks

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It's a Pashto proverb duface.

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Originally posted by Sultan Suri: *
If it isn't good old uncle Fraudi! Shaloom to you too. *

if it isn't nanha munna sultan
walaikum dhanevaad to you too baita

If they are black holes, Pakistan helped in creating those black holes.

sorry these areas were no eden. They had enough of their problems. They chose to stay on fringes of pakistani society and looking at the lameness of that area, I am glad they did so.

** If they are narrowminded, Pakistan helped in maintaining it that way. **

maintain.. not create, thus you have agreed that that is one narrow minded place.

*Not only did Pakistan murder and jailed many of the educated, secular, and civilized sons of those areas who were about to bring a change but Pakistan helped declared them traitors, and Hindu loving kafirs. Oh yes :- ) *

many of the educated and civilized? you must have a rather loose definition of "educated and civilized"

*Haray yaar who helped maintained the beautiful ghetto it is? *

maintain.. not create, teh ghetto was creeated by the people who live there and who wanted to keep it a ghetto. They succeeded.

*Who helped Taliban, who helped Hekmatyar, who helped Rabanni and Masood for which he later exploded bombs in Islamabad, *

Everyone did, pakistan, US, Iran at one time or another, and all these ppl were pals with yer tribals wern't they?

*who supported Arabs and foreign fighters to who you proudly provided ‘technical’ support, moral support, and weapons? *

again everyone who supported the afghanis against russians. I dont recall them saying no to help then. But the point here is FATA..not a part of afghanistan, and these ppl were all up for it, Pakistan and Us were good as long as it meant that these tribals can help their brethren fight the russians.

the cat fight that broke out between the factions after teh soviets left was noone's fault but the locals, something that FAT folks took quite active part in.

*Are we playing lets act dumb? *

atleast you are not "playing"

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sultan Suri: *
[How about we do a google search of "Pakistan a failed state" and "Afghanistan a failed" state and see which one gets more hits hmm? But oh no boo hoo hoo that is all Pakistan's fault too
[/QUOTE]

how about we look at UN data and see what it actually says rather than google searching :) but that may be logical so cant be expected

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[QUOTE]
duface.
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What is a "duface"? If you are going to call names at least learn to spell correctly.

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What was the burqa comments all about, now honk like a donkey and say that it was devine just like most of the crap you have stated.
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The burqa incident is fact not a comment. You don't have anything to say so now you start name calling... as expected from thankless little beghairats.

[QUOTE]
And here it is the hidden hate. Pakistan looks up very proudly to Afghans like Abdali, Ghori and Suri son, they protect your nation. Don’t be so biased towards Afghan now. They make 140+ million Pakistanis very proud.
[/QUOTE]

Hidden hate? You are the one calling everyone names and trying to act clever. Abdali, Ghauri and Suri may do Pakistan proud (do you just know the names or do you know the history behind the names?)but the claimants of thier descent bring incredible shame. I am done trying to talk sense to jaahils, unless there is anything useful to be said this is the end of the discussion.

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[QUOTE]
how about we look at UN data and see what it actually says rather than google searching but that may be logical so cant be expected
[/QUOTE]

Forget it Mr. Fraudia, koee faida naheen. They won't listen until a constable repeats these things while using a 10 number kaa chittar.

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How poetic, you want to be insulted, though with perfection. Sorry, I forgot I was writing a book here.

The burqa incident was a fact, says who? It might have been, but what about the chappals, don't the jammatis wave chappals in their protests? Now thats a fact also, dont cry about it.

You need to reread your statements and see all the name calling and insults you so profanely showered. Practice what you preach.

[QUOTE]
Abdali, Ghauri and Suri may do Pakistan proud (do you just know the names or do you know the history behind the names?)but the claimants of thier descent bring incredible shame. I am done trying to talk sense to jaahils, unless there is anything useful to be said this is the end of the discussion.
[/QUOTE]

I know the history, I think you should learn their history, thanks to these forefathers of the begharits you exist, a reason existed because of them for call for a nation like Pakistan. If not the beghairats, at least have some respect for these men that make ‘Pakistan proud’. But its not the first time we have seen ungratefulness from the elite of Pakistan, there is no limit to it.

No one asked you to talk sense into us jaahils, a blind can’t lead others. Maybe your ‘sense’ didn’t work because it is full of garbage, try taking out the trash and see what happens.

p.s. It is their, not ‘thier’.

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Yaar you just want attention, go watch the forums.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
how about we look at UN data and see what it actually says rather than google searching :) but that may be logical so cant be expected
[/QUOTE]

p.s. There is no need to answer your other regards, you already know the answers to those. The fact is if Taliban were winning today in Afghanistan, and Pakistan wasn't being squeezed into submission, you all would still praise the ignorant jaahils.

33

To say that all Punjabis are having it good in Pakistan would be wrong. A lot of them suffer like many of the other groups in Pakistan.

**Edit by Mod:

Please avoid targeting the whole race/group/cast based on ur personal thoughts or experiences with no proven fact.

Thanx
**

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This very politicized discussion is being transferred to a more appropriate forum - the Pakistan Affairs Forum.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sultan Suri: *

Yes, I am Afghan and I have said it before and I will say it again. Every Pakhtun is an Afghan.

[/QUOTE]

Great. You are welcome to go post on an Afghan site then. What are you doing here? Maybe the fact that you will be beaten senseless by your Taliban for accessing the internet is the reason you need to visit a Pakistani site instead but at least show some gratitude.

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Originally posted by Sultan Suri: *
**Yaar you just want attention, go watch the forums. *

O Bhai, if this is an order then I am kinda bad at accepting orders, if its a request then sorry I am not in a charitablemood :)

*p.s. There is no need to answer your other regards, you already know the answers to those. *

Other regards being looking at UN data nd not google searches to see where afghanistan is?

*The fact is if Taliban were winning today in Afghanistan, and Pakistan wasn't being squeezed into submission, you all would still praise the ignorant jaahils. *

P.S. we are talking about the other brand of ignorant jahils, i.e. teh tribals.

P.S. addendum: No I disliked taleban from the beginning, and all the warlords in afghanistan prior to that as well :)

37

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
So the crimes of sikh rulers means Abdalis massacres and lust for resources of India are ok? And please don't tell me that Abdali wanted to save any muslims. He wanted the riches of India, like every other ruler before him. And these muslims you talk of were also converted to islam by the sword. Lets not rewrite history to suit us better. If you want to revere Abdali or Suri, do it based on fact, not on some myth you read in your pakistan studies book.
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No, I am not a victim of Pakistan Studies neither a victim of Indian ropaganda. I have never said that the muslims invaded India just to spread Islam. Abdali was like all other kings waged wars to expand its territory. Abdali founded an independent Afghan kingdom after the death of Nadir Shah and claimed all eastern territories of the late persian king. If you read the history of the 18th century Punjab you would come to know that Moghuls, Afghans and Mrathas were fighting each other to bring Punjab under their sovereignty. Abdali invaded Punjab at least 9 times between 1747 and 1769. The rulers of Punjab Adina Beg, Mir Mannu and Shah Nawaz invited him to invade Punjab in order to get rid of the mayhem ensued by their own chaotic behaviour. Khoshwant Singh writes in his book "The history of Sikhs" about the 5th Afghan invasion.

"His(Abdali's) specific object on this ocasion was to crush Maratha power in northern India. His nominee, the rohilla chief Najib-ud-daulah, had been expelled from Delhi. Muslim rulers from different parts of the country had written to him of the danger hat the rising tide of the militant hinduism presented to islam, even the hindu chiefs of rajasthan had pleaded with him to save them form the depredations of the marathas".

Neither were they as brutal as Indians want us to believe nor were they saints.

[quote]
Suri was as brutal as other other invaders.
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I assert you know nothing about Suri, even a most biased India historian would never write anything bad about him.

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Suri put to death numerous hindu armies after he defeated them. And whether Abdali was invited or not, doesn't change the fact he was a ruthless invader.

Again, nothing wrong with looking up to these people if you want to, but just be aware of the profound affect these invaders had on their victims. That is why I find it really arrogant when pakistanis and afghans look up to mass murderers as a source of pride. That's why I have never understood this mentality.

Today I find it funny that the invaders are the invaded, while countries like India are marching forward. A cruel joke of history perhaps.

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As I said earlier you know nothing about Srui.
Reas why indians issue a special postage stamp to honour him.

link

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Interesting History discussion.

If you look at History of those times, most rulers whether in Europe or Asia were brutal to those they conquered. Christianity also spread by the Sword.

Yes Ahmad Shah Abdali was a sadistic invader who pillaged and pludered his conquests. But if Indians can glorify the Maratha and Sikh rulers and Americans can glorify Christopher Columbus, then there is nothing wrong with Pakistanis celebrating their heritage by saying a few positive things about past rulers.