$260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

Estabilishment? Bhai mere deal hi estabilishment ke baap General Mushraf ne ki thi. That so called honest baghorha general, america oar landan ki ser kar raha hay:D

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

If "mining" deal was already done by Mushy then why are the companies fighting to get the license to mining?

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

Here is the reply.

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

another guppy's post is not really considered a reply.

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

In march article in dawn newspaper estimated that $100 billion was estimate of these gold mines now its claimed its $260 billion or miscalculation and it could be $22 billion does anyone have a reliable source on figures.

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

^ what is "reliable"?

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

I am amazed at the replies of Anwar Pasha and **sachaydino both are jiyalas of PPP and are of the believe that every other person in the world are against Hazrat Asif Ali Zardari and everything said against them is conspiracy...

The deal was initiated in Mushy's era but is being discussed in the same manner in Zardari's era... does that make Zardari & Co less guilty? I think CJ will take notice of this and then these ppp will cry loud that only Zardari is the target... aray bhai chor ko target nahi karaiN gay tu kisay karaiN gay..

I am 100% sure none of the ppp jiyala would provide direct answer.. yes they'll whine about it and curse the whole world... .
**

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

It is not a question of PPP jyala, it is a question of principles. When this shady deals were done where were this news paper aor murli bajanay waalay? Why silence at the time when first time this corruption or wrong deal was done? Why because it was done by a General so every one was o.k. with that? Ab murli kyon bajh rahi hay?

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

becoz of famous 10%:D: and now 100%

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

Only a jiyala can come up with such an idiotic logic...

what you were saying is, because the deal was initiated in Mushy's era, Zardari have every right to complete the bad doing??? one thing you may have forgotten in the due course that the people of Pakistan out-voted mushy because of the deals like this... ofcourse if hazrat Zardari does these kind of deals and get un popular among the masses and looses the election then the jiyalas like you would say that we couldn't have lost these election, it is conspiracy against PPP and democracy...

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

I think you better watch your language. I know you are die hard enemy of PPP but it does not mean to insult any one for that stupid reason.

As regard this news item, how far is it true do you have any idea? Just believing in this **y news paper and start whining about it only shows how much intellegence one has. It is not Zardari only there are other stakeholders are also involved. The provencial government and the PM Gilani and perhaps many more. Keeping in view "madar pidar azad news media" it is very difficult for PM or President or any other high official to involve in any kind of back door deals. You should get this into your biased and prujdice thinking. If you think Gilani is also corrupt and will involved in shady deals you must get your brain examined. **

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

Why don't you make up your mind? First you said the deal was already done in Mush era now you are saying that we shouldn't even believe the news article.

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

According to above article 75% share is with the company and 25% share is with provincial government. That deal was signed by Mush behind the back doors. Now this news item appears after five years of the deal. Without going in to details and truth about the deposits as I already see the different figures. There is quite a difference between what is speculated and what is actually there. A long time ago they discovered Syndiak copper mines. What happend to these mines, it were claimed to be highest deposits in the world?

When I say stake holders I mean Kyani too. Do you think general will allow any kind of back door deal? Mush killed Bughti the Baloch leader, just because he only wanted fair share of resoources of Baluchistan. Saying all this talking about back deals by Gilani or Zardari or anyone else is quite stupid.

The news paper belongs to Jang group and it only writes against PPP government since 70's. But they have no guts to write any thing against dictatorships or terrorist organization like mqm.

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

Well said :k: :jhanda:

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

So basically the people of pakistan have been robbed blind again.

What's new!

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

I know most Pakistanis do not do research and believe lies if told to them in the name of demo(n)crazy by demo(n)crats, especially if lies are directed towards those they do not like (for instance Musharraf and his government). Anyhow, I believe people on this forum are not idiots that they would become fool by accepting lies full of propaganda, as being intelligent, they would do their own research then reject propaganda and accept truth after finding facts, as facts are easily available on net.

Here are facts regarding Riko Dig (that anyone interested can find out as there is enough information on net, plus I am also posting some links for those who are really interested in facts and not lies, that is given below):

Riko Dig Project agreement was first signed in July 1993 between Baluchistan government and BHP Billiton (Anglo-Australian mining company). According to 1993 contract, BHP Billiton was given right of exploration and with that right BHP Billiton was also given 75 stake in Riko Dig project whereas Baluchistan government received 25 percent stake. So, this stake of 75 percent going to BHP Billiton, a foreign company, was given by 1993 government. [Now think who was in charge of Pakistan in July 1993 and earlier, as deal takes time to finalise, so who may have taken kickbacks? … Well, that was Ganja Thug of Lahore/Raiwand, aka Bara-Tind.]

Anyhow, in year 2000, BHP Billiton decided to transfer their right of contract to TCC (Tethyan Copper Company), an Australian based mining company, something ‘BHP Billiton’ could not have done without ‘deed of waiver and consent’ from Pakistan. So, they asked for ‘deed of waiver and consent’ from Pakistan so that they can transfer the contract to TCC with ‘claw back rights’, something Pakistan gave BHP Billiton in June 2000 (this was done during Musharraf period).

[Under this ‘deed of waiver and consent’, Government of Pakistan gave its consent to ‘BHP Billiton’ so that they could grant rights to TCC, do any transfers to TCC, and agreed to waive all of its pre-emptive rights under the agreement in relation to such transfers].

In early 2006, Antofagasta Minerals, a Chilean copper company bought 19.95 percent stake in TCC.

So, in March 2006, interest in Riko Dig was controlled by 4 parties.
25 percent stake is held by Baluchistan government.
75 percent stake is held by BHP Billiton (Anglo-Australian mining company) due to agreement in 1993, that stake was transferred to TCC (Australian mining company) with ‘claw back rights for BHP’ in 2000 (under Deed of Waiver and Consent June 23, 2000), who (TCC) sold 19.5 percent stake to ‘Antofagasta Minerals, a Chilean copper company’ in March 2006.

Anyhow, in 2006, a new development started when Antofagasta Minerals decided to buy TCC (along with all TCC interest in Riko Dig). Barrick Gold (Canadian company) financed Antofagasta with condition that if Antofagasta succeeds in their acquisition of TCC and all ‘claw back rights interest’ of BHP Billiton, then they would share TCC 50 percent share, thus both got 50 percent share each of TCC (and thus 75 percent share in Riko Dig as TCC held 75 share in Riko Dig).

So today, Nov 2010, the situation is:
Baluchistan government holds 25 percent stake in Riko Dig (as according to contract of 1993),

Antofagasta Minerals and Barrick Gold together hold 75 percent stake in Riko Dig (37.5 percent each). They acquired this interest due to each holding 50 percent interest in TCC (Australian company), who got this 75 percent interest from BHP Billiton (what was given to BHP Billiton by Pakistan government in 1993).

If anyone wants to read about what I wrote above, they can read the detail in articles below:

http://www.dawn.com/2006/03/13/ebr9.htm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/LF11Df02.html

From above it is clear that as far as Riko Dig is concerned, there should be no blame on Musharraf government regarding percentage of stakes in foreign hands. One can only say that Musharraf government should not have given ‘Deed of waiver and consent’ to BHP Billiton in June 2000, and that is all, but that would not have changed anything except instead of Barrick Gold and Antofagasta holding stake in Riko Dig, it would have been BHP Billiton (whom Ganja Thug of Raiwand gave 75 percent stake in Riko Dig).

Anyhow, what happened later in 2006 was nothing to do with Pakistan, as Antofagasta Minerals and Barrick Gold bought TCC, a company that holds Riko Dig stake. Both are working in Pakistan under same name, and that is TCC.

Note: To be fair with Ganja Thug government, in 1993 when deal was struck no one knew what Riko Dig might be holding or if it holds anything recoverable for extraction. So, company and Pakistan made deal and then company decided to spend money on exploration in very inhospitable condition, and that was speculative for them. They may not have found anything and would have left with losses. If recoverable deposits were found then that was luck of Pakistan as well as company exploring. Only thing one can say is that, if Pakistan would have done a better deal than it would have been more beneficial. How much kickback Ganja took in 1993 to make 25:75 shares deal is again speculative.

I would have preferred if deal struck was at least 50:50 *… plus an important clause should have been inserted in deal that if Pakistan decides, Pakistan would be able to buy 100 percent interest at 10 times the exploration cost, as that would have been killer safety clause if Pakistani negotiators had any intelligence and sincerity with country … but then, one have to understand that Raiwand farm cost money, park lane flats in London cost money, and Ganja is greedy too, so he needs lot of payea and Nihari with Lassi of course … plus Ganja and his team never had intelligence or sincerity with country other than knowing how to loot, F, and plunder the country.

As for how much Gold and Copper in ‘dollars’ Riko Dig holds, that value is variable. For instance:

[From: http://www.defence.pk/forums/economy-development/77301-world-largest-gold-copper-mine-reko-diq-balochistan.html

That is estimate from Barrick Gold (Canadian company) estimate of their own share in the Riko Dig project … as Barrick estimates their share of around (8.4 to 8.5) million ounce of Gold and around (8.5 to 11.5) billion pounds of Copper, that is 37.5 percent share.]

Present estimated deposit of Gold in Riko Dig is around 22.5 million ounces.
Present estimated deposit of Copper in Riko Dig is around 22.5 to 30 billion pounds (so, we can use average of 27 billion pounds).

In July 1993 when contract was signed:
Gold price was around $370 an ounce.
Copper price was $0.84 per pound
So total value of deposit = $8.3 billion gold + $22.7 billion copper) = around $31 billion

In June 2000 when Musharraf government gave ‘deed of waiver and consent’:
Gold price was around $285 an ounce.
Copper price was $0.795 per pound
So total value of deposit = $6.4 billion gold + $21.4 billion copper) = around $27.8 billion

In March 2006
Gold price was $560 an ounce.
Copper price was $2.32 per pound
So total value of deposit = $12.6 billion gold + $62.6 billion copper) = around $75.2 billion

In Nov 2010,
Gold is $1392 an ounce.
Copper price was $3.5 per pound
So total value of deposit = $31.3 billion gold + $94.5 billion copper) = around $125.8 billion

So, one can see that at present, fair estimate of gold and cooper in Riko Dig is around $125 billion.

We do not know how much it would cost to extract gold and copper from Riko Dig, but I believe, it would cost very little compare to the value of deposits Riko Dig has, maybe 10 billion dollars. Still, one can be certain that Riko Dig would produce reasonable amount of Gold and Copper. Foreign company share is 75 percent of that (unfortunately), but I am sure Pakistan can tax that amount and if taxed properly, that would be substantial.

At present, what I am thinking is that present agreements are to do with negotiation on tax concession that foreign companies may be demanding, as possibly Riko Dig mines must have started producing Gold and copper profitably, and now another thug, Mr Zardari is thinking about his own Raiwand farm, Nihari, Payea and lassi.

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

This is what the article says about NZ's tenure: "The provincial government had first signed the contract for Reko Diq exploration area with the BHP Minerals International Exploration Inc. in July 1993 and established a joint venture with the respective interests of the province– 25 per cent and BHP Billiton – 75 per cent by virtue of a Deed of Waiver and Consent June 23, 2000."

This is the daily times link "The original contract for Reko Diq exploration was signed in 1993 with BHP Minerals, which established a joint venture with the local government, leading to a deed of waiver and consent signed in 2000. TCC, then a subsidiary of Australian Mincor Resources, had an alliance with BHP. Antofagasta and Barrick Gold took over 100% of TCC in 2006. "

Its no surprise that the 25-75 % rule was introduced by our own dear musharraf's govt.

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

Isn't tax covered in agreements before-hand? I don't think any company would be interested without pre-conditioning tax amount.

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

Bhai, aap ko angreeji may kuch likha hua samjh may aata hay ... or you are promoting lies thinking that people would not understand? :)

I know that the way article is written, Pakistani style in Pakistani English, it could be confusing, though for those with little bit of intelligence, what is written is clear. Please read again, think what is written and try to understand:

[quote]
"The provincial government had first signed the contract for Reko Diq exploration area with the BHP Minerals International Exploration Inc. in July 1993 **and established a joint venture with the respective interests of the province– 25 per cent and BHP Billiton – 75 per cent by virtue of a Deed of Waiver and Consent June 23, 2000"

Under this deed, the GOP provided its consent to the grant of rights to TCC and to any transfers to TCC and agreed to waive all of its pre-emptive rights under the agreement in relation to such transfers.
[/quote]

I believe that it would be clear to anyone that, what it is written is:

[quote]
The provincial government signed the contract for Reko Diq exploration area with the BHP Minerals International Exploration Inc. in July 1993 and established a joint venture with the respective interests of the province– 25 per cent and BHP Billiton – 75 per cent.

By virtue of a Deed of Waiver and Consent June 23, 2000, GOP provided its consent to ‘BHP’ that they could grant or transfer the rights (of exploration) to TCC and agree to waive all of its pre-emptive rights under the agreement in relation to such transfers.
[/quote]

Note: ‘and establish’ in article shows that share was decided at time of exploration agreement, and that is normal too in any agreement.

Anyhow, if your understanding is not so good then you should read other articles and what I have written would become clear.:)

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Re: $260 billion gold mines going for a song, behind closed doors

Sometime government can give tax holiday to certain industries for certain length of time, but I do not think that is the case with Reko Dig.

Anyhow, tax is on-going thing and is levied on profit. Government can vary taxes every year, and could stop exemption of taxes anytime too. Anyhow, it is obvious that companies working at Reko Dig would adjust exploration cost with profit before paying taxes, and that is different matter.