[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Fraudia bhai,
I have no battleplan for you to rid the Muslim world of extremists. But as a white Christian American I can have little or no effect on those in Pakistan who have sheltered and promoted OBL. **
OG and the second or third generation american/canadians/brits of Pakistani origin have just slightly more connection with pakistan than you.
** the Muslims who are prone to support him and protect him simply do not listen to people like me. **
They do not listen to anyone :) The amount of time I have been called non-muslim or ignorant or whatnots by people far less extreme and with far more education and exposure proves that.
*Only universal revulsion in the Muslim world will bring down AQ. *
well nothing is universal, and will never be. even when US was fighting the nazi menace it had nazi sympathisers..etc. so universal is a bit idealistic.
However, more people back in muslim countries need to understand what this guy and his group truly is, for which I can do a little bit more than you, but not a whole lot more.
the modus operendi and thought process is very simple, some people kinda see him as a Robin Hood..u know taking the fight to the big bad US of A, without really understanding that the guy is a thug. I think the responsibility to educate these people is pretty universal, more for the govts of countries they live in, and the clergy, but its up to us all.
(that’s from your own thread “World Rallies against War”)
Sorry. Not just trying to be a pr•ck. But this is what I meant in that I think many Westerners saw this war as an atrocity by a non-Muslim force against Muslims just as you did. And millions of my peers have not stayed silent about it since. They are trying to change the way the U.S. and British Governments do business.
I really don’t think Americans were all that defensive about ETA.
storch this is about war that a number of countries are waging and the citizens of those countries have a say in what their govts do. quite different from going out and protesting what some extremist group does, why, because you are nto connected to this group, they may share your faith or race or whatever but thats it, u have no influence over it.
I did not see catholics in US in mass protests against the bombings in Uk by the IRA. see my point?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defense of al Quaeda
stotch, that is about people marching against their governments waging war, and not really about opposing atrocities against Muslims.
I have yet to see one mass protest in a non-Muslim country protesting about atrocities against Muslims by a non-Muslim force. In fact I have not seen many protests against IRA terrorism from the huge Irish-American community, or even in EIRE itself. I could mention other quite recent examples of non-Muslim terrorists acts, some as bloody as the Spain attacks, but that would be off topic, but suffice to say I did not see any huge protests in the west against these.
For the record, I believe that any ‘Muslim’ when he kills a Muslim or a non-Muslim without any just cause i.e. in open warfare, ceases to be a Muslim. Hence, in my eyes the terrorists of Al Qaida are not Muslims by any stretch, so I need no reason to defend them.
If indeed Europe is now under attack, then immigration policies in some countries will make Ashcrofts' Patriot Act look like childs play. Already US immigration and travel policies, for right or wrong, have changed substantially. Education opportunities for Muslims abroad have changed due to security concerns.
Are you getting my drift? This is of course a collective suffering, where huge numbers of people become suspect for the sins of a handful. When Muslim people begin to see that "Robbing from the Rich" makes everyone look like a potential thief, then the collective efforts of Muslim people will eradicate the threat. This is not intentional, but it was OBL who choose to define this conflict as a religious one, and in doing so he made life difficult for many of you.
I dearly hope that Spoon's rougue ETA theory is correct. Already we have European counties, particularly France increasing security quite a bit. The French have the ETA to worry about, and they were mentioned in a recent AQ tape for the controvesy over headscarves. Either conflict could mean that they will be attacked.....
Already the New York Times is running articles on the vulnerability of the Western Europe Rail system. (never mind the Chunnel) The ramifications of this bombing cannot be underestimated, that is why the conversation is not and cannot be soley focused on the ETA. A vulnerabilty has been discovered, much like 9/11, and the use of aircraft as missles..........
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defense of al Quaeda
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
For the record, I believe that any 'Muslim' when he kills a Muslim or a non-Muslim without any just cause i.e. in open warfare, ceases to be a Muslim. Hence, in my eyes the terrorists of Al Qaida are not Muslims by any stretch, so I need no reason to defend them.
[/QUOTE]
Mali,, i see your point, but I think no one is talking about defending these fools liek OBL, but of speaking up against them.
I think u do enough speaking upa gainsty all idiots, including OBL :)
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
OBL and AQ have had a much easier time operating in Europe, as Europeans have not seen a direct threat from AQ. Frankly AQ has been smart enough not to s** where they eat.
[/QUOTE]
What? Those attacks agains Musharraf, against the Christian community in Pakistan etc weren't carried out by Al Qaida? Please explain...
well basque separatists have not made religion as their issue, and that is why they are not considered "christian extremists". I do not recall any statements by ETA with religious tint to it.
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Well in my opinion AL-qaeda’s main claim is that Palestine, and now Afghanistan and Iraq should be free from colonial supremacy. Yes they are Muslim countries, but their main focus remains for land.
Does that mean that if ETA was fighting for the freedom of Muslims in northern Spain they would be termed as MUSLIM terrorists otherwise they will be called separatists.
According to me both are terrorist organisations. Period!
The attacks in Pakistan are the ultimate Robin Hood. Their supporters expect attacks, and encourage them.
AQ has used Europe as a safe staging ground for attacks elsewhere. The Europeans may claim to be motivated in their anti-terrorists efforts, but an attack on a European country, and the reaction from some governments would make Ashcroft look like tinkerbelle.....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
storch this is about war that a number of countries are waging and the citizens of those countries have a say in what their govts do. quite different from going out and protesting what some extremist group does, why, because you are nto connected to this group, they may share your faith or race or whatever but thats it, u have no influence over it.
I did not see catholics in US in mass protests against the bombings in Uk by the IRA. see my point?
[/QUOTE]
Your putting it in a specifically and literally religious context in terms of defining the communities involved in this hypothetical. I, rightly or wrongly, and for the sake of argument, was lumping Muslims into a socio-political group on one side and say white, secular/Christian European Americans on the other.
So I see the fact that thousands or millions of white European Americans gather inprotest against something they perceive to disconnected from-the U.S. Government, WTO to end, Iraq sanctions, Afghanistan conflict-as evidence that there is a great willingness to speak out -even before all the evidence is in-against their own group.
Many messages in this thread seem to me to indicate that many feel that they do indeed have a connection or some weird fidelity with AQ. For some it could be religious others have a robin-hood kind of affection I think.
So, no you won't see U.S. catholics protesting IRA violence, but neither will you see a defence of it by and large. However, the people of Northern Ireland did protest after Omagh and other tragedies which may have helped quell the violence.
But on "our" (American) issues there is much visible anc vocal dissent.
The evidence all points to al Queda/Muslum fundies, a link with co-operation with ETA would be no surprise at all. A more organized and closer relationship against the war on terror will emerge due to these attacks, the use of NATO in Iraq is more likely to occur as well.
Spain Arrests Three Moroccans, Two Indians in Bombing Attack
Spain Arrests Three Moroccans, Two Indians in Bombing Attack
March 13 (Bloomberg) – Spain arrested five people, three Moroccans and two Indians, in connection with the bombing attacks that killed at least 200 people and injured more than 1,500 in Madrid Thursday, said Interior Minister Angel Acebes.
``Some of the arrested could have links with to extremist Moroccan groups,‘’ Acebes said in a press conference tonight.
The arrests were made after police found a bomb concealed in a sports bag, which also held a cell phone. Following a trace from the telephone, the arrests were made in Madrid, Acebes said.
Two Spanish nationals from of Indian origin were also being questioned, Acebes said.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by imran dhanji: *
**Indians are of "Hindu origin"..*
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Yes, I saw that on the BBC as well. But maybe to the Spaniards Indian and Hindu is interchangeable? If the Spanish government has got this badly wrong, then it will have severe political consequences for them, especially with elections tommorrow? Some of the signs at a demo read *"Tell us the truth...Aznar, your national and international policies are irresponsible and dangerous." *
My thoughts are with all those who have lost love ones in these terrible atrocities.
Personally - i think the Spanish government were rather quick to blame the ETA - and in my opinion - it doesn't fit because it's far too sophisticated for them - Al-Qaeda on the other hand seems very plausible - remember that in the war in Iraq - the only nations on the UN security council that were firmly behind the US-led-coalition were the UK, Spain and Romania - Romania is too soft to be a target - and i wouldn't be surprised if U.K becomes the next target.
Yes, I saw that on the BBC as well. But maybe to the Spaniards Indian and Hindu is interchangeable? If the Spanish government has got this badly wrong, then it will have severe political consequences for them, especially with elections tommorrow? Some of the signs at a demo read *"Tell us the truth...Aznar, your national and international policies are irresponsible and dangerous." *
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CNN says may they had to arrest some folks to pacify the Spanish crowds and the elections tomorrow.
These five are related to some phone calling card scheme.
I dint knew that there are Spaniards of Indian origin.
