[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
^^ You are basing your rumors on what? You have done all the investigation yourself.... man you are quick.
[/QUOTE]
I still see non-Muslims, especially American's are still in a defense-type mentality, and want to blame other groups, even though the government of Spain is still today insisting it is ETA. This kind of desperation to blame others and evident blindness to blame non-Muslims is eveident in other cases, especially after 9/11.
I AM SITTING HERE IN OFFICE ( IN GERMANY) AND ALL R DISCUSSING ABOUT IT AND SAYING IT IS SURE THAT SOME ISLAMIC GROUP IS BEHIND THAT AND SAID TO ME look they found koran verse there.. ( strange reason to say)
i my self think that it was ETA behind.. but if anything happen now a days then people first think that have to been muslim behind
Well media hysteria and speculation will lead to people coming to the wrong conclusions, depsite the fact the Spanish government is standing by it’s original claim that ETA are behind these attacks.
**Spanish Foreign Minister Ana Palacio earlier said everything appeared to implicate Eta in the attacks, with “very strong clues” and “very strong precedents” backing that view. The group has previously targeted the Spanish railway system and two Eta suspects were arrested last month driving a truck loaded with more than 500kg of explosives headed for Madrid. **
Also, I just heard on the news that the little known “Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades” has previously claimed responsibility for the energy blackouts in the United States and Canada last year. So much for the credibility of that source then.
Why are we so quick to accept Spain, a partner in the modern day crusades, at their word? It's been years since AQ claimed responsibility for 9/11 and many around here still refuse to believe they are responsible. ETA may very well be proven to be the culprits here, there is not conclusive evidence at this point. It's just amusing to watch people who usually say "don't jump to conclusions to blame Muslims" so they can affix blame to a non-Muslim entity and use a western government's position just because it doesn't blame Muslims. It is in the Spanish government's best interests with the elections coming to blame internal terrorists instead of foreign terrorists, which may be why they are fixating on ETA. Either way the duplicity and hypocrisy in the rush to blame ETA around here is fun to read.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChannMahi: *
Spain has engineers submit work reports in Arabic? damn ..I thought I had the tough job.:)
[/QUOTE]
A bit off teh topic because it was an example in jest, but anytime is a good time to educate.
You will find arabic project reports in major consulting companies pretty much anywhere. Companies that are working on development projects in middle east often have to submit documentation in arabic alongside english.
As a matter of fact, my dad's company ran some major development projects all over middle east in partnership with a British company, and the engineers flew back and forth between the countries with all sorts of documents, soft copies of documents were stored.
When the company bid on projects in a different country, the initial proposal with its arabic translation was tweaked, printed and packaged in the UK for a project in middle east and was taken by the proposal team.
Same goes for the projects in Kuwait after desert storm, the british and american companies that were there had documents in english and arabic both. Since these companies were based in US or UK, people were constantly shuttling back and forth with these documents.
:)
Seminole,
Very well put.
Why is there a discussion about AQ being the culprits in Spain? Because it is plausible. Because nobody would put it past them, given the number of previous bombings, the intentional slaughter of innocents, and the previous ranting recordings against Spain as an ally of the US. Nobody is grasping at straws, just considering it as a possibility.
In a way, the response of the Gupshup community here is refreshing. Two years ago there were denials that Muslims could in anyway be responsible for the acts of 9/11. (Where is the proof?) Now there is a palpable holding of breath, and a silent prayer that it is not Muslims again. Two years ago, we were being lectured on the "root causes" of the bombing, and rationalizing, why in essence the US "deserved" to be hit. Two years ago there was dancing in the streets of the Palestinian territories, and joy at the insult to Americas pride.
While there are still those who grasp at any hint that there is a "Christian" terrorist group operating somewhere in the world, as if to say, "See it is not just us!", the Madrid bombing is still a stark reminder of what terrorism really is. Terrorism, as separated from other types of conflict, is the intentional and meticulously planned slaughter of innocents.
We have come a long way in two and half years. The terrorists were viewed with a certain perverse awe and respect then. Now they are viewed a burden weighing down the Muslim world. This was not all ways the concensus. Whether AQ is the ultimate culprit in Madrid certainly remains to be seen. At this point they are certainly the "usual suspects", by virtue of bombs in Bali, Istanbul, Iraq, Pakistan, and many of other bombings where there was no question as to their involvement.
Why is AQ considered a prime suspect? Because we have come to expect it. Because of Fatwas that are declarations of war. Because of video and audio recordings threatening violence in precisely this fashion. It is not a leap of failth.
Frankly I hope it is not AQ. I wish them no success. I am hoping that they are slowly and surely being degraded. I am hoping that their sources of support and funding are drying up. I am hoping that the people who justify their actions are getting sick of them and realize that they are a burden on Islam. That their base of support is smaller and smaller, and that true muslims realize that they are not noble warriors, That there is no shame in turning them in before further acts are commited. Despite what participants here might say, organizations such as AQ cannot operate in a vacuum. Financing, logistics and moral support are still essential to their success. Only Muslims can secure or deny these essential elements for the terrorists.
Thankfully we have had no discussions on why "root causes" made terrorists slaughter 200 people on their way to work.....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Either way the duplicity and hypocrisy in the rush to blame ETA around here is fun to read.
[/QUOTE]
well there would be no duplicity or hypocrisy if we dont rush to any conculsions, suspicions yes, conclusions no. So lets keep our eyes and mids open because it can be anyone, working alone or in some partnership.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
While there are still those who grasp at any hint that there is a "Christian" terrorist group operating somewhere in the world, as if to say, "See it is not just us!",
[/QUOTE]
OG, as someone whose freinds/family have been impacted by the Moronic terrorism of the Irish republican Army, I assure you that there is no grasping at any hint of christian terrorists being present, but just a hope that all terrorist groups, whether arab, european, muslim, christian, hindu, jewish, wherever in the world should be controlled and destroyed.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
OG, as someone whose freinds/family have been impacted by the Moronic terrorism of the Irish republican Army, I assure you that there is no grasping at any hint of christian terrorists being present, but just a hope that all terrorist groups, whether arab, european, muslim, christian, hindu, jewish, wherever in the world should be controlled and destroyed.
[/QUOTE]
Peer Ji, keep on hoping, are any other terror group listed as such by US or any other westeren nation. What has been doen to date (after 9/11) to contain and destroy them. I have not see US or UK jump up and won Ireland throat to cut it out or here we come. So the peopel like Seminole, OG and UTD can keep their intellectual(devoid of) arguments to a minimum untill there is a clear prrof that it was done by Al-Qaeda. I am not saying they did not, they might have. Lets try to eradicate the other terror groups as well.
No one is saying it was AQ. I don't think anyone even wants it to be AQ. The posts that are devoid of any intellectual content are the ones not waiting for proof and hell bent on blaming ETA.
Pir Sahib,
I don't think you will find any of us not lamenting the actions of any terrorists regardless of stripes. I lost three freinds in 9/11, thats why I ended up on Gupshup. I would wish that on no one.
My point is that AQ has become the default terrorist of choice for good reason. They have raised the bar on terrorist acts, and caused a sort of terrorist inflation. The Madrid bombings are testimony to AQ, regardless of who laid the explosives. The level of horror has increased, and that is AQ's gift to the world.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
No one is saying it was AQ. I don't think anyone even wants it to be AQ. The posts that are devoid of any intellectual content are the ones not waiting for proof and hell bent on blaming ETA.
[/QUOTE]
Is that so? I suggest you read the whole thread from the beginning, and you will see that some people seem to be in overdrive to try to pin it on Al Qaida, despite the Spanish government and the United Nations blaming ETA. For myself I will say that if it is discovered that Al Qaida carried this out, or if it worked with ETA then it will be equally condemned without any sort of excuse.
Just keep in mind that if there is a terrorist outrage in Spain, people will first think of ETA, which has been primarily waging a terrorist war against that nation for decades, and has killed some 800 plus people. Similarly in the UK people will suspect the IRA or any splinter group - like the one that carried out the horrendous Omagh bombing in 1998 which killed nearly 30 people after the "ceasefire". Also, in the United States we know that white fanatics and militia groups are very capable of terrorist outrages - remember Oklahoma City? Remember how Muslim groups were blamed then, and ordinary Muslims in the US harrassed as a result?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
A bit off teh topic because it was an example in jest, but anytime is a good time to educate.
You will find arabic project reports in major consulting companies pretty much anywhere. Companies that are working on development projects in middle east often have to submit documentation in arabic alongside english.
As a matter of fact, my dad's company ran some major development projects all over middle east in partnership with a British company, and the engineers flew back and forth between the countries with all sorts of documents, soft copies of documents were stored.
When the company bid on projects in a different country, the initial proposal with its arabic translation was tweaked, printed and packaged in the UK for a project in middle east and was taken by the proposal team.
Same goes for the projects in Kuwait after desert storm, the british and american companies that were there had documents in english and arabic both. Since these companies were based in US or UK, people were constantly shuttling back and forth with these documents.
:)
[/QUOTE]
Your point taken. You did not see smiley at the end my sentence, I knew it is possibility but remote.
Anyways, reports that I have read say they found a audio tape in the car with Qoran verses in it. Now tapes are usually found only at two places..either in cars are near the streo at home. What may be mistaken is like someone else said above that it might be some Arabic singer singing romatnic songs instead of Qoran verses.
on a side note, it is the ETA blamers who are sure of ETA's cuplability without proof while AQ blamers are cautious including US govt and posters on this thread.
OG, great post. You said what many of us felt.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Seminole,
Very well put.
Why is there a discussion about AQ being the culprits in Spain? Because it is plausible. Because nobody would put it past them, given the number of previous bombings, the intentional slaughter of innocents, and the previous ranting recordings against Spain as an ally of the US. Nobody is grasping at straws, just considering it as a possibility.
In a way, the response of the Gupshup community here is refreshing. Two years ago there were denials that Muslims could in anyway be responsible for the acts of 9/11. (Where is the proof?) Now there is a palpable holding of breath, and a silent prayer that it is not Muslims again. Two years ago, we were being lectured on the "root causes" of the bombing, and rationalizing, why in essence the US "deserved" to be hit. Two years ago there was dancing in the streets of the Palestinian territories, and joy at the insult to Americas pride.
While there are still those who grasp at any hint that there is a "Christian" terrorist group operating somewhere in the world, as if to say, "See it is not just us!", the Madrid bombing is still a stark reminder of what terrorism really is. Terrorism, as separated from other types of conflict, is the intentional and meticulously planned slaughter of innocents.
We have come a long way in two and half years. The terrorists were viewed with a certain perverse awe and respect then. Now they are viewed a burden weighing down the Muslim world. This was not all ways the concensus. Whether AQ is the ultimate culprit in Madrid certainly remains to be seen. At this point they are certainly the "usual suspects", by virtue of bombs in Bali, Istanbul, Iraq, Pakistan, and many of other bombings where there was no question as to their involvement.
Why is AQ considered a prime suspect? Because we have come to expect it. Because of Fatwas that are declarations of war. Because of video and audio recordings threatening violence in precisely this fashion. It is not a leap of failth.
Frankly I hope it is not AQ. I wish them no success. I am hoping that they are slowly and surely being degraded. I am hoping that their sources of support and funding are drying up. I am hoping that the people who justify their actions are getting sick of them and realize that they are a burden on Islam. That their base of support is smaller and smaller, and that true muslims realize that they are not noble warriors, That there is no shame in turning them in before further acts are commited. Despite what participants here might say, organizations such as AQ cannot operate in a vacuum. Financing, logistics and moral support are still essential to their success. Only Muslims can secure or deny these essential elements for the terrorists.
Thankfully we have had no discussions on why "root causes" made terrorists slaughter 200 people on their way to work.....
[/QUOTE]
President Jose Maria Aznar today backtracked from blaming Basque terrorist group ETA…
Also, an interesting fact, this happened exactly 911 days after the the 9/11 attacks on america.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Also, an interesting fact, this happened exactly 911 days after the the 9/11 attacks on america.
[/QUOTE]
912
Even the United States and United Nations are very cautious at blaming AQ…especially as the group that claimed responsibility has made pretty tall claims before.
**The United States believes Al-Masri sometimes falsely claims to be acting on behalf of al-Qaida. The group took credit for blackouts in the United States and London last year.
U.N. anti-terrorism chief Inocencio Arias said ETA was likely behind the bombings because they bore “all the fingerprints” of the militant organization. **
Now we list the US as if they are credible sources. Why can’t we just wait? The truth will come out. This is all nothing but speculation.
Hey, I am only following the example of American’s for whom quoting Al Jazeera has now become common place. Pity to see you using smilies, when people are discussing such a human tragedy.