Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
Oh when it comes to Iraq you didn't post anything in case you have to criticise the killers of innocent people.
How can he after all you are putting his massa on the spot... Don't they say blind hatered is a bad thing.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
^ ISI & Pak military is certainly the reason the war went on so long in Af-Pak. You should also know a large proportion of terrorism and related deaths happened in Pakistan due to homegrown religious extremists specializing in suicide bombings. Don't understand why you'd call me blindly hateful for stating these things that everyone knows is true
Iraq is a different story -
You definitely don't know the history of Afghanistan and Pakistani fata.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
gentlemen, can we please stay on the topic.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
....Iraq is a different story -
meetha meetha hup hup... karwa karwa tho tho.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
american law enforcement agencies have enforced strictest rules for dealing with terrorists , because of few mad mullas and heretics, peaceful muslims have to suffer certain security checks . but real muslims understood these measures and cooperated , these have brought peaceful and safe america . otherwise terror mongers are active to their best of the capacities with the help of some well known spy agencies involved earlier in training and financing terrorists but by god's grace they are being killed one by one . no body from middle east muslim countries gives shelter or supports these criminals . if only pakistan cleans it's house and targets the criminals , terror will be finished from this region .
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
Yes Indians have never supported terror groups in other countries, Pakistan does need to clean its house and every one here acknowledges that what about india itself?
The situation in Afghanistan (might have some Pakistani angle) but its not that simplistic as to how you guys pose it to be.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
meetha meetha hup hup... karwa karwa tho tho.
ROTFL LMAO...
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
^ itr is obvious you are not at all well read on the subject since you reject truth as rubbish. How can I argue with people like you who close their eyes and think the sun has set? Ofcourse true to the script when your own arguments sound tinny you bring out the muslim card.
It is a very well known and proven crime that ISI maintained terrorist training camps in Pakistani border, trained and conducted terrorist raids into Kashmir. India had to indeed post large contingents of troops because of this. Things did get out of hand when the Pakistani terrorists joined hand with some local separatists and started attacking the Indian soldiers and their families.
As usual Pakistani military this is the root of evil.
Don't make any mistake - it is the curse of those innocent families that your terrorists murdered - those cries were heard by God and the resultant punishment is what you are witnessing in Pakistan today. Your own terrorists are bombing your own country.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
Yes Indians have never supported terror groups in other countries, Pakistan does need to clean its house and every one here acknowledges that what about india itself?
The situation in Afghanistan (might have some Pakistani angle) but its not that simplistic as to how you guys pose it to be.
This is a reflexive falsehood propoganda. The one time the Pak army said they found Indian armaments and published photographs of them, turned out they were all Chinese made! The dumbos forgot to check some of the markings! And the other time your PM Gilani said he has handed over a 'dossier' to Indian PM, he was embarrassed in public - he had to admit there was no such dossier!
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
Oh when it comes to Iraq you didn't post anything in case you have to criticise the killers of innocent people.
what's the point? you are just going to keep your head buried in the sand and play the muslim card. But since you ask I will post my views on that too.
Bush the W was an idiot and while he may have been right in removing Saddam HUssein, he did not handle the post-Saddam parts right. The people of Iraq celebrated removal of Saddam - you would remember the videos of Iraqi aam gleefully toppling Saddam statue and draggging it on the street. But after that the W-Cheney-Rumsfeld gang completely misread the region.
Saddam Hussein played cat'n'mouse with arms inspectors; Dubya and gang played cowboys - both were stupid and the people of Iraq suffered.
BTW the Pakistan establishment is doing the same thing - thet thought they could play cat'n'mouse with Uncle Sam - took Uncle's money and paid terrorists to go attack Uncle's soldiers.
In both cases the people died.
So I am eagerly awaiting your admission and admonition of ISI and your armyfor these atrocities?
That is why I said Iraq is a different story.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
BTW the Pakistan establishment is doing the same thing - thet thought they could play cat'n'mouse with Uncle Sam - took Uncle's money and paid terrorists to go attack Uncle's soldiers.
In both cases the people died.
So I am eagerly awaiting your admission and admonition of ISI and your armyfor these atrocities?
That is why I said Iraq is a different story.
ISI would have its motives in Afghanistan, like India and the US. Having said that, it is not entirely elements (closer to Pakistan) who are attacking the Americans. A whole lot of Afghans consider the American 'warriors' as invaders. The treatment being meted out to NATO/ISAF is not isolated to the invaders there. I believe that ISI should take a neutral stance vis a vis Afghanistan as they need to sort out a lot of our internal problems. The Afghans are themselves capable to defend themselves against the invaders. As far as making Pakistan a scapegoat for American failures in Afghanistan, go and read the history of VietCong. History is repeating itself and Pakistan is playing the role of Cambodia.
Is Pakistan responsible for the failed karzai government, inefficient ANA and the vast majority of ordinary people/government officials openly supporting taleban right under the noses of the occupiers?
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
One must ask the question ... whether it was the OP who wrote the article or did the Washington Post write it ... as the OP stated ...
Since the Washington Post are the ones making the comparison between terrorism and Islam and since Kurzman was presenting the statistics of Muslims involved in crimes/terrorist acts ... it therefore presents a case by itself that both the media and the people who are involved in analysing terrorism are routinely searching for trends between Muslims and Terrorism ...
When they openly say "Our war on terrorism is not a war on Islam" - they don't believe it themselves - that is why they continually surprise themselves to see such low numbers of Muslims involved in crimes.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
It is a very well known and proven crime that ISI maintained terrorist training camps in Pakistani border, trained and conducted terrorist raids into Kashmir. India had to indeed post large contingents of troops because of this. Things did get out of hand when the Pakistani terrorists joined hand with some local separatists and started attacking the Indian soldiers and their families.
As usual Pakistani military this is the root of evil.
Funny ... because history goes back further than 11 years ... prior to those days ISI and the "jihadi camps" were the wild card agent for the Western allies against Russia.
And I find equally humourous that you complain about "soldiers being attacked" - that is what soldiers are there for ... so the rest of the people don't get attacked ... Soldiers who engage in warfare are at higher risk to be attacked in retaliation it doesn't make any difference if they decide to make their homes in the areas they have walked in to - it is their fault for do so on disputed or volitile territory. If I hear of people being slaughtered I will lament, but when soldiers do their job, by defending valliantly I feel proud - so should you.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
One must ask the question ... whether it was the OP who wrote the article or did the Washington Post write it ... as the OP stated ...
Since the Washington Post are the ones making the comparison between terrorism and Islam and since Kurzman was presenting the statistics of Muslims involved in crimes/terrorist acts ... it therefore presents a case by itself that both the media and the people who are involved in analysing terrorism are routinely searching for trends between Muslims and Terrorism ...
When they openly say "Our war on terrorism is not a war on Islam" - they don't believe it themselves - that is why they continually surprise themselves to see such low numbers of Muslims involved in crimes.
why is it a surprise to these people who supposed to be intellectuals?
the saturation of anti muslim propaganda in the western media is there for all to see.
War on terror is a war against muslim world, but they have to use the old divide and rule policies to make their war easy so they will say we have war on the "bad muslims" whoever they are.
The reality is they target entire muslim world from the nations of africa to islands of south east asia this is obvious to even the casual observer.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
why is it a surprise to these people who supposed to be intellectuals?
the saturation of anti muslim propaganda in the western media is there for all to see.
War on terror is a war against muslim world, but they have to use the old divide and rule policies to make their war easy so they will say we have war on the "bad muslims" whoever they are.
The reality is they target entire muslim world from the nations of africa to islands of south east asia this is obvious to even the casual observer.
Shhh ... don't speak to loud ... people are gonna think you are a crazy conspiracy believer ... :)
The fact is is they create the lies and then dupe themselves into believing them ... There are some problems with individuals who are Muslim - yes - agreed - but they can be counted on your hands as the data suggests. The billions left are not harmful to them in any physical way ... however our ideas are desperately harming their ideas. Our ideas of anti-consumerism, anti-secularism, pro-humanism, denial of evolution, fairness and justice.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
Funny ... because history goes back further than 11 years ... prior to those days ISI and the "jihadi camps" were the wild card agent for the Western allies against Russia.
And I find equally humourous that you complain about "soldiers being attacked" - that is what soldiers are there for ... so the rest of the people don't get attacked ... Soldiers who engage in warfare are at higher risk to be attacked in retaliation it doesn't make any difference if they decide to make their homes in the areas they have walked in to - it is their fault for do so on disputed or volitile territory. If I hear of people being slaughtered I will lament, but when soldiers do their job, by defending valliantly I feel proud - so should you.
did you not read the part about how Pakistani cross border terrorists attacked and killed sleeping families - women and children?
Russia invaded Afghanistan so defending against that is fine. Training and sending in terrorists into cities in India is very different and in fact shows how evil and cowardly Pak army is - if they have the guts why wouldn't they send in their soldiers as soldiers instead of mixing them up with terrorists? may be they saw no difference.
Anyway, all that is past. Your country is paying for such sins.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
How can he after all you are putting his massa on the spot... Don't they say blind hatered is a bad thing.
interesting choice of words. To be expected from a Pakistani - after all you guys have been taking dole from Americans for what several decades and clamoring for even more? How many times have you gone to 'massas' to canvas for more dole and debt forgiveness and rescheduling? How many hundreds of Pakistanis did Pakistani army and government handover to the 'massas' with and without being commanded? How many mid-night calls have your great leaders woken up to from from some underling in Washington and saluted?
no hatred ...just plain facts. It hurts you because it doesn't suit the national denial you all want to slip into.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
did you not read the part about how Pakistani cross border terrorists attacked and killed sleeping families - women and children?
Russia invaded Afghanistan so defending against that is fine. Training and sending in terrorists into cities in India is very different and in fact shows how evil and cowardly Pak army is - if they have the guts why wouldn't they send in their soldiers as soldiers instead of mixing them up with terrorists? may be they saw no difference.
Anyway, all that is past. Your country is paying for such sins.
Peace BindazChakkar
My country is the UK, although I have a love for my homeland which is where the political boundaries of Pakistan are now upon ... I have no synergy with anyone who inflicts violence through unjust means and I have no care for one-sidedness in such discussions ... notice how I was careful in my previous posts not to make Pak better than India or vice-versa ... but when it comes to soldiers violence is what they came for - as for their families - I ask what sort of army goes in to an area and settles there with their own families? If it is not an invasion/occupayion then what is that?
Tell me are the Indian forces learning from the Israelis or is it the other way round?
And if people undertake the wrong means to act then they will be punished if not by others then by God ... and that includes Muslims, but one thing is for sure ... No country should have to pay the price for the acts of individuals and this unethical manner in which war is being undertaken these days will result in the ramifications that previous civilisations have had happen to them.
Ultimately the warmongers will lose.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
Yes Indians have never supported terror groups in other countries, Pakistan does need to clean its house and every one here acknowledges that what about india itself?
The situation in Afghanistan (might have some Pakistani angle) but its not that simplistic as to how you guys pose it to be.
i respect your feelings , but you are on very tough track , it is very hard for a intellectual like you to defend i.s.i. and pak army on the topic of terror and subversion inside and outside pakistan . whatever i have posted here that is meant for the consumption of javed miadad "faransisi" and likes of zhenge whose only aim of life is finish non muslims from the face of earth , there are threads created by these fellows just to blame and tarnish image of america , india, hindus zews . they start every thread in the name of persecution of muslims and end with call of zehad .
the good thing is here is that i have feeling that 99% muslims in pakistan do not think in the same way as javed ,zhenge ,snowey and few others, same can be said for india also , we are fighting right from the 1947 against non secular hinduwadis and have defeated them many times , and we are proud of 20 crore muslims living side by side with hindus ,christians , zorostrians . we are living in this enviornment from the last 1000 years . i believe one day pakistani public will realise their real enemies who are terrorists and killers of humanity ,i hope there is hope for peace.
Re: 14,000 murders in United States last year, not one resulted from Islamic extremis
The people who want to subdue whole nations are the real enemies, terrorists do not want power necessarily, they are people who react with physical violence against regimes that use "control" to subdue others to a life of servitude to serve their own interests - which is another form of violence.
It is really hard for people to remain patient. Regimes should be magnanamous and be kind, whereas the people who are being wronged should be respectful and take constructive measures to seek the liberties they wish for. The Muslims in my opinion are better off seeking solace in the orthodoxy of Islam, rather than turning to hedonism, or radicalism ... and I agree with the OP for doing just as he has done. He is only trying to give a true picture of the threat, this in order to create compassion and sympathy for his fellow Muslims. He should not be blamed for that.
Those who would like us to create enmity amongst ourselves are dangerous people. Why are we being asked to create separation between ourselves and those who are reacting crazily as a result of their oppression? Rather we should provide them a wing and calm them down and show them that there is another way ... a way of patience and virtue.
The Muslims who have become terrorists do have a home, but they have wandered in to the valley, we have to bring them home, not leave them to wander.