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  • The punishment of adultry

    It's a popular belief that the punishment of adultry in Islam is stoning to death. However, it's completely incorrect. You cannot find any strong proof of this in either Quran or Sunnat. It was observed by Jews at the time of Prophet Mohammad. Later on it was carried out by Taliban to suppress women and for honor killings.

    The actual punishment was a number of lashes. If the accuser cannot present 4 "eye" witnesses, the case would be dismissed and the accuser himself will be punished. It means that Allah is not hell bent on punishing the adultoros, unless they publicize it or spread promiscuity or spread fitna.
    How much wood would a wood chuck chuck .. if a wood chuck would chuck wood

  • #2
    So are you pro adultery, since you will almost never have 4 male or 8 half witted women as eyewitnesses and the guy accusing will get flogged so it should be game on, NO? It is flogging for unmarried, stoning for married, there is a different punishment for married or unmarried adventure seeker. Like the country is starving, chances of severe water shortage, diseases etc and the focus is who is having sex with whom?

    Comment


    • #3
      My point is, if someone is doing it discretely and behind closed doors, then the matter is between him and God. But, If he is publicizing his crime, then it's a social matter and should be taken to court.
      How much wood would a wood chuck chuck .. if a wood chuck would chuck wood

      Comment


      • #4
        Western laws think that consensual sex is between people and not a crime. As per Sharia, I always wondered about people who would risk their life for sex. Just because it is hard to prove does not mean that Islam is giving you a wink, wink to have extra marital sex.

        Comment


        • Cashmere
          Cashmere commented
          Editing a comment
          Agree with this

      • #5
        I want to clarify that stoning to death was never a law in Islamic jurisprudence.

        in response to your comment above: I m a follower of Shia fiqh. And temporary marriage is 100% halal. Both parties say a phrase in Arabic or any language.. and decide a time period for how long a marriage will last. It's completely consensual. They can increase or decrease the time period depends on their liking. For unmarried girl, the permission of a wali like father is required. For a divorced or widowed person, no such permission of wali is required.

        however, even though the temporary marriage is halal and consensual. Most Shia prefer permanent nikah and life time partnership.
        How much wood would a wood chuck chuck .. if a wood chuck would chuck wood

        Comment


        • Bobby1
          Bobby1 commented
          Editing a comment
          I heard there is a lot of prostitution in Iran based on the principles of temporary marriage and a lot of Saudis travel to Indonesia and India to exploit children using Mutah.

        • ajazali
          ajazali commented
          Editing a comment
          Its based on principles when it comes to Iran but exploitation if done by Arabs. lol
          do you think that people here are too naive to get that you are a hypocrite?

        • Bobby1
          Bobby1 commented
          Editing a comment
          Arabs are most notorious for travelling to India, Indonesia and engaging in temporary marriages. I have personally seen hordes of Saudis in Turkey and in Bangkok on sexual tourism.

      • #6
        It's an unenforceable law

        Comment


        • #7
          Bobby if someone is exploiting the law, it doesn't mean the law is flawed.

          And why are you labeling it as prostitution. If you like your partner, he has good morals. He brings out the best in you, he praises you, he is a good cuddler. He relieves your pain. Then you can marry him forever.
          How much wood would a wood chuck chuck .. if a wood chuck would chuck wood

          Comment


          • Bobby1
            Bobby1 commented
            Editing a comment
            It is human nature to exploit the system. Temporary sex for money is classified as prostitution here. The reason in our western laws it is classified as criminal is because it has the potential to exploit women and underprivileged. Women are not sex toys for wealthy. Father pimping his own daughter in name of Mutah, I feel is despicable. Yeah you will claim religious rights but Human Rights trump religious rights.

            Sex for money is prostitution and yes a prostitute can marry her John also. If he had good morals he wouldn't be exploiting women for money. That is an oxymoron.

        • #8
          These laws are so wild. Most adultery is done behind closed doors, so to find 4 genuine eye witnesses to confirm that adultery occurred is just lol

          Comment


          • third string
            third string commented
            Editing a comment
            yeah and it has to 4 male witnesses of 'noble character' that saw the act, as in PIV - they should see the penetration, any other position doesn't count. So it's safe to say it's a deterrent and not actual law, it's totally unenforceable.

          • Cashmere
            Cashmere commented
            Editing a comment
            Exact point of this law is that if it is behind closed doors, you must seek forgiveness alone. Again, its lack of enforceability works in your favor as it at least saves you the humiliation.

        • #9
          Originally posted by ~RestLess~ View Post
          Bobby if someone is exploiting the law, it doesn't mean the law is flawed.

          And why are you labeling it as prostitution. If you like your partner, he has good morals. He brings out the best in you, he praises you, he is a good cuddler. He relieves your pain. Then you can marry him forever.
          If a law is easily exploitable then it is actually flawed and needs to go back on the drawing board to make it more strict.

          Comment


          • third string
            third string commented
            Editing a comment
            You need to look at the spirit of the 'law', it's a deterent to discourage premarital sex - back in 7th century Arabia getting married was extremely easy, people didn't have to wait so long or have to be settled down, so they really had no excuse as opposed to our times. I compare this law to when Jesus said, "he who hasn't sinned cast the first stone", now some not so smart people would interpret that as Jesus sanctioning stoning as a punishment however it actually means that nobody can cast a stone as everyone is a sinner.

            So I see this is as an unenforceable law, there's even a hadiths where a companion of the prophet comes to him confessing that he has committed zina and asks him to punish hoever the prophet keeps ignoring him and tells him to just ask forgiveness from God.

          • IsaidwhatIsaid
            IsaidwhatIsaid commented
            Editing a comment
            third string Lol @ a "deterrent" for premarital sex needing such odd and specific instructions based off of the cultural and historical situation of 7th century Arabia, but yet it is being advertised as being straightforward and universal regardless of time and place. Really makes you think.

        • #10
          Very good. So all holy human need to do is to make sure there are no witnesses.
          My degree of sarcasm is directly related with your level of stupidity.
          "Hamari Koi aur branch nahi hai"

          Comment


          • #11
            Also it should be discussed why so many sunnis fantasize Mutaa so very much. Its a surprise why havent they got a fatwa in its favor yet
            My degree of sarcasm is directly related with your level of stupidity.
            "Hamari Koi aur branch nahi hai"

            Comment


            • Holy Lota
              Holy Lota commented
              Editing a comment
              Kuch Kuch hota hai?

            • Cashmere
              Cashmere commented
              Editing a comment
              I think you should be a bit more respectful towards this section of the forum. Not every thread is a canvas for your puerile remarks Holy Lota

            • Holy Lota
              Holy Lota commented
              Editing a comment
              Curious which comment did you find disrespectful Mademoiselle Cashmere

          • #12
            Who knew Bobby1 would oppose prostitution. How is prostitution on it's own more exploitative than any other service? Making it illegal hence pushing it underground increases the risk of exploitation. Does it not? A prostitute would be less likely to report an abusive John if prostitution was illegal because she would fear getting prosecuted herself.

            Comment


            • SID_NY
              SID_NY commented
              Editing a comment
              Good point about abuse.

          • #13
            Originally posted by ~RestLess~ View Post
            It's a popular belief that the punishment of adultry in Islam is stoning to death. However, it's completely incorrect. You cannot find any strong proof of this in either Quran or Sunnat. It was observed by Jews at the time of Prophet Mohammad. Later on it was carried out by Taliban to suppress women and for honor killings.

            The actual punishment was a number of lashes. If the accuser cannot present 4 "eye" witnesses, the case would be dismissed and the accuser himself will be punished. It means that Allah is not hell bent on punishing the adultoros, unless they publicize it or spread promiscuity or spread fitna.
            Islam needs major reform. These vague 6th century laws need to be overhaul to deal with the lives of 21st century human beings if the religion aims to be taken seriously.

            Comment


            • Cashmere
              Cashmere commented
              Editing a comment
              Number of lashes/punishment for adultery and fornication are listed in Surah Noor. Reform what? Reform the Surah?
              Why not reform behaviors and societal structure accordingly to the most modern time- just as all other Jews, Christians, and Pagans guided by a religious scripture dating centuries back?

              The religion itself does not intend to be taken seriously by flag bearers of ignorance. It never was, and never will be. Heard of Amr ibn Hisham? Okay.
              Light remains light; whether you close or open your eyes to it is YOUR problem.
              Last edited by Cashmere; 3 weeks ago.

          • #14
            I dont know much about the actual punishment but I believe somewhere in Quran there is a whole lot description about it. I'm expecting Captain Obvious and lethal kamikaze would know far more
            We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star." -- Stephen Hawking

            Comment


            • #15
              Originally posted by SaeedinPakistan View Post
              Who knew Bobby1 would oppose prostitution. How is prostitution on it's own more exploitative than any other service? Making it illegal hence pushing it underground increases the risk of exploitation. Does it not? A prostitute would be less likely to report an abusive John if prostitution was illegal because she would fear getting prosecuted herself.
              In case of Mutah there is no free will as the Walli of unmarried girl has to complete the deal and poverty and addictions lead to fathers, brothers selling the girls for money and many times they are just children. In our country only Johns are charged and not sex workers. many runaway girls etc are exploited. Just look at human trafficking numbers and you can see that there is horrid exploitation. Women still are fighting for rights and there is a serious potential for exploitation.

              Once enough legal and societal safeguards are provided then I feel a consensual arrangement could be okay.

              Saudis are also showing their monstrocity in exploiting children in India also.

              Comment


              • Cashmere
                Cashmere commented
                Editing a comment
                Addicted, pimpy Walis of unmarried girls living in poverty... You sure have a creative mind, why not write a novel on all this? The MUSLIM underprivileged, helpless, dirt poor, uneducated, exploited women out there. Where and when have you seen these cases? Personal accounts? Eyewitness? WHICH monstrosity? Give me names and examples Bobby. Anyone can fabricate stories and use them to their advantage. Discussions and debates don't work this way. Without real evidence your point holds zero value.
                And lastly: what are YOU doing to help these NUMEROUS women and children besides doltishly typing away like a maniac?

              • Cashmere
                Cashmere commented
                Editing a comment
                I apologize for my post above. Although I never thought temporary marriages were valid for any reason, I was not aware of the underlying issues of Mutah. You also exaggerated some points. After having conducted research, I have to agree with your stance in the post above regarding Mutah.

                Some real sickos out there.
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