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Intercession & Pagans during Last Prophet SAW time

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  • Intercession & Pagans during Last Prophet SAW time

    How intercession is different to that of what pagans were doing during Hazrat Muhammad SAW time? They had idols & used them as intercession saying we are so sinful hence making these idols our intercessors. Intercession is legitimate so what were they doing wrong? Is it they made idols & just worshipped them? & those were assumed beings & not some pious people to make intercession from? Those were pagan idols they were worshipping but they did believe in oneness of God.

  • #2
    They also worshiped those idols. The names of some of them were Laat, Uzzah, and Manaat. It is said that they believed that Laat/Uzzah/Manaat were the daughters (astaghfirullah) of Allah. They believed that each idol controlled some aspect of life. For example, it was believed that Uzzah was the goddess of fertility and that Manaat was the goddess of kismat or fate. So this view negates the belief of Oneness. When we believe in the Oneness of Allah, this means that we believe it is Allah who controls fate, life, death and other affairs. So, the Pagans of that time went beyond intercession; they attributed powers to the statues that they made.

    It is said that there was a man by the name of Amr bin Luhay and he had visited another civilization that was more prosperous than his own community. This particular civilization worshiped a handmade deity that they called Hubal. Amr bin Luhay felt that the fortunes of his own community would improve if they also worshiped Hubal, so he initiated the practice of worshiping Hubal when he returned to his people. So, this example proves that the Pagan people of that time did not credit the success of their tribe to Allah alone, it was attributed (either partially of fully) to a handmade statue.....so that is going beyond intercession. The Pagans could be fickle in their idol worship; meaning that they would swap one idol for another and the status of an idol sometimes depended upon the material that it was created from.
    At your absolute best, you still won't be good enough for the wrong person. At your worst, you'll still be worth it to the right person.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by redvelvet View Post
      They also worshiped those idols. The names of some of them were Laat, Uzzah, and Manaat. It is said that they believed that Laat/Uzzah/Manaat were the daughters (astaghfirullah) of Allah. They believed that each idol controlled some aspect of life. For example, it was believed that Uzzah was the goddess of fertility and that Manaat was the goddess of kismat or fate. So this view negates the belief of Oneness. When we believe in the Oneness of Allah, this means that we believe it is Allah who controls fate, life, death and other affairs. So, the Pagans of that time went beyond intercession; they attributed powers to the statues that they made.

      It is said that there was a man by the name of Amr bin Luhay and he had visited another civilization that was more prosperous than his own community. This particular civilization worshiped a handmade deity that they called Hubal. Amr bin Luhay felt that the fortunes of his own community would improve if they also worshiped Hubal, so he initiated the practice of worshiping Hubal when he returned to his people. So, this example proves that the Pagan people of that time did not credit the success of their tribe to Allah alone, it was attributed (either partially of fully) to a handmade statue.....so that is going beyond intercession.The Pagans could be fickle in their idol worship; meaning that they would swap one idol for another and the status of an idol sometimes depended upon the material that it was created from.
      That happened way before Hazrat Muhammad SAW time, Arabs way before used to do that I think. I am specifically talking about Last Prophet SAW time. When pagans in that time were asked who is your creator they used to say Allah but they thought they are so sinful themselves hence making intercession. Correct me if I am wrong.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by bourjois View Post

        That happened way before Hazrat Muhammad SAW time, Arabs way before used to do that I think. I am specifically talking about Last Prophet SAW time. When pagans in that time were asked who is your creator they used to say Allah but they thought they are so sinful themselves hence making intercession. Correct me if I am wrong.
        No, this did not only happen way before the Prophet SAW's time. It continued to happen even during the Prophet SAW's time. The beliefs and practices were passed down from one generation to the next. The Prophet SAWS had sent someone to destroy the statue of Uzzah which the people believed was the goddess of fertility. Even the idol of Hubal was worshiped by the Quraish during the Prophet SAW's time. Abu Sufyan called on Hubal (not Allah) after he was was defeated in the battle of Uhud. So from these examples it seems that the pagans were not only engaged in a seemingly innocent and humble intercession mentality of oh-we-are-so-guneghaar...........they went beyond that. I hope that makes sense. The pagans of that time did believe in Allah and they even did tawaf around the Kaaba and believed it to be Allah's house......but phir bhi.....alongside Allah, they believed that their statues held certain powers.



        The leaders of the Quraish even tried to negotiate with the Prophet SAWS with the proposal that, "One day we will worship Allah and the next day we will worship our gods/statues. We will take turns." Ab is baat se yeh zaahir hota hai....that they were not only using the idols for tawassul......they were also doing the pooja of those idols.


        Are you comparing the pagan Arab intercession with the modern day intercession? There is a debate among the scholars about the subject of intercession. But even so.....there is still a difference in the thought process. For example, let's say that you make a dua to Allah for something...such as rizq. And you ask Allah through the wasila of the Prophet SAWS. You don't believe that the Prophet SAWS controls your rizq or your fate or your health. Whereas the pagan Arabs believed that their idols controlled these aspects of life. And if you think that ...well is main kya kharaabi hai if they believed that a statue could help them get Allah's favor? Well....at least the Prophet SAWS was a real person....and even the awliya/saints were real people....people who themselves were dependent upon Allah for every blessing in life. At least there is some logic in the view that this was an actual pious person who holds a special rank with Allah. What rank with Allah does a statue ....that a person creates with their own hands ....have? You make something with your own hands, and then you assign a name to it, and then give it a specific power....err.....yikes! :-/
        Last edited by redvelvet; 3 weeks ago.
        At your absolute best, you still won't be good enough for the wrong person. At your worst, you'll still be worth it to the right person.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by redvelvet View Post

          No, this did not only happen way before the Prophet SAW's time. It continued to happen even during the Prophet SAW's time. The beliefs and practices were passed down from one generation to the next. The Prophet SAWS had sent someone to destroy the statue of Uzzah which the people believed was the goddess of fertility. Even the idol of Hubal was worshiped by the Quraish during the Prophet SAW's time. Abu Sufyan called on Hubal (not Allah) after he was was defeated in the battle of Uhud. So from these examples it seems that the pagans were not only engaged in a seemingly innocent and humble intercession mentality of oh-we-are-so-guneghaar...........they went beyond that. I hope that makes sense. The pagans of that time did believe in Allah and they even did tawaf around the Kaaba and believed it to be Allah's house......but phir bhi.....alongside Allah, they believed that their statues held certain powers.



          The leaders of the Quraish even tried to negotiate with the Prophet SAWS with the proposal that, "One day we will worship Allah and the next day we will worship our gods/statues. We will take turns." Ab is baat se yeh zaahir hota hai....that they were not only using the idols for tawassul......they were also doing the pooja of those idols.


          Are you comparing the pagan Arab intercession with the modern day intercession? There is a debate among the scholars about the subject of intercession. But even so.....there is still a difference in the thought process. For example, let's say that you make a dua to Allah for something...such as rizq. And you ask Allah through the wasila of the Prophet SAWS. You don't believe that the Prophet SAWS controls your rizq or your fate or your health. Whereas the pagan Arabs believed that their idols controlled these aspects of life. And if you think that ...well is main kya kharaabi hai if they believed that a statue could help them get Allah's favor? Well....at least the Prophet SAWS was a real person....and even the awliya/saints were real people....people who themselves were dependent upon Allah for every blessing in life. At least there is some logic in the view that this was an actual pious person who holds a special rank with Allah. What rank with Allah does a statue ....that a person creates with their own hands ....have? You make something with your own hands, and then you assign a name to it, and then give it a specific power....err.....yikes! :-/
          I am not comparing, I was listening to Seerah of Prophet Muhammad SAW & Yasir Qadhi did say that same is what people these days do, going to peers, shiekhs, saints & making intercession.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bourjois View Post

            I am not comparing, I was listening to Seerah of Prophet Muhammad SAW & Yasir Qadhi did say that same is what people these days do, going to peers, shiekhs, saints & making intercession.
            Yasir Qadhi is correct. Going to peers and saints and asking them for intercession is a form is shirk that scholars like Yasir Qadhi and others from the same school of thought (Salafism, some call them Wahabi) forbid. But a vast majority of people in Pakistan believe in these things and still go to peers.
            “Every son of Adam sins, and the best of those who sin are those who repent.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2499; classed as hasan by al-Albaani.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bourjois View Post

              That happened way before Hazrat Muhammad SAW time, Arabs way before used to do that I think. I am specifically talking about Last Prophet SAW time. When pagans in that time were asked who is your creator they used to say Allah but they thought they are so sinful themselves hence making intercession. Correct me if I am wrong.
              How can it be true when they were beating the hell out of those new muslims who chant "ahad" i.e., He is one??
              Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein

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              • #8
                Islam has taught us to pray to Allah directly not through any medium. yes, we often ask pious among us to pray to Allah on our behalf but that doesn't mean we cannot "talk" to Allah directly. for instance, Namaz is just a set of prayers that we offer ourselves. In Islam nothing has been stressed more than oneness of Allah. Christians also apparently believe in one God but they have their concept of trinity where they include Jesus(as) and Holy Spirit in the concept of God which has been repeatedly declared wrong in Islamic scriptures. Muslims have been asked to refrain from praying during rising and setting of sun to remove any doubts of as if they are bowing to the Sun. etc
                Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by bourjois View Post
                  How intercession is different to that of what pagans were doing during Hazrat Muhammad SAW time? They had idols & used them as intercession saying we are so sinful hence making these idols our intercessors. Intercession is legitimate so what were they doing wrong? Is it they made idols & just worshipped them? & those were assumed beings & not some pious people to make intercession from? Those were pagan idols they were worshipping but they did believe in oneness of God.
                  Islam is all about knowing the difference between Khaliq (Creator) and Mukhlooq (creation)

                  in Islam we are told to worship none but the only ONE Allah Subhanahu wa Taala!


                  No created images or Idols/shapes... they all come in the category of Makhlooq!
                  Last edited by SindSagar; 1 week ago.
                  I say love, it is a flower, and you, it's only seed!

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