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  • #16
    Captain Obvious women rights and gender equality is mostly a liberal and secular value, all religions have considered women inferior to men and require obedience from them hence the chances are men who are religious may feel that if women is not showing obedience then she should be put in place. Abuse rates in more religious countries are higher than in secular societies and most religious countries score poorly on gender equality also.

    Comment


    • decentGuy
      decentGuy commented
      Editing a comment
      Women rights means different things for different people. There is no point in comparing lives of women in low GDP countries to those in high GDP countries. Even men from low GDP countries won’t be able to come close to lives of women in high GDP countries.

    • Bobby1
      Bobby1 commented
      Editing a comment
      We should maybe use different terms,rather than GDP, we should use terms as religious and secular, western and democratic countries. Saudi Arabia has a lot of wealth and here we treat dogs better than they treat women. Does your definition of of rights meaning different things entail 70 yr old Saudi purchasing a 12 yr old Syrian refugee as his 4th bride and him divorcing and rotating the 4 wives regularly, or flogging a rape victim?

    • decentGuy
      decentGuy commented
      Editing a comment
      There is no point in ignoring the GDPs and comparing life of a person living in a rich country to that of a poor one. Be it a man or a woman.

  • #17
    decentGuy paaji. If Bobby darling doesnt sell chooran of women equality here then wut other chooran he got?


    #ZorLagaKe
    My degree of sarcasm is directly related with your level of stupidity.
    "Hamari Koi aur branch nahi hai"

    Comment


    • Bobby1
      Bobby1 commented
      Editing a comment
      I got chooran of opposing terrorism, not molesting children in madrassas, no religious intolerance, not selling dog meat for goat, not mixing sewer water in milk, not killing people by doing milawat in life saving drugs and then gloating about moral superiority..lots more chooran pakhanay kai lotay..nothing holy in a repugnant lota..lol

  • #18
    Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post
    Captain Obvious women rights and gender equality is mostly a liberal and secular value, all religions have considered women inferior to men and require obedience from them hence the chances are men who are religious may feel that if women is not showing obedience then she should be put in place. Abuse rates in more religious countries are higher than in secular societies and most religious countries score poorly on gender equality also.
    Even then conjugal abuse is still an issue even in secular, liberal societies. Even the pretext of gender equality is used by some to try to impose their own views on women. Being in Quebec, this issue arises on and off, particularly with those trying or wanting to legislate against women who wear hijab or niqab by trying to selectively impose gender equality on those women.

    From many Muslim friends/acquaintances, I'm not too worried about Muslim women being able to find Muslim men who are both successful/accomplished in educational/financial matters, while at the same time observing fundamental religious practices and who are not abusive and who aren't into things like womanizing, drinking etc. In short, I don't think that Muslim women, especially in the West are in a position where they have to choose between a non-practicing (or only cultural) Muslim who drinks or a practicing (religious) Muslim who is an abuser.


    Tell your assassin to aim for her head...because she doesn't have a heart.

    Comment


    • Captain Obvious
      Captain Obvious commented
      Editing a comment
      Things are also not as dire as you're making it seem. I'm not quoting any stats here. The way you're making it seem from your posts is that a girl has the option to either A) get married to a "liberal" guy who doesn't observe religion and who drinks if she wants to be treated well and respected (along with her children) or B) marry a guy who observes religious practices but then she will have to endure abuse. This is definitely not the case either. All I'm saying is that it is very possible to find religiously observant guys who would treat their wives and families well and who are doing well in their careers/finances also. This is not to say that there aren't bad apples...of course there are. But the issue of conjugal abuse is definitely not particular to practicing Muslims or even Muslims in general. It's something pretty much universal.

    • Bobby1
      Bobby1 commented
      Editing a comment
      I am a person who analysis and looks at probabilities, most of the religions on the planet did not treat women as equals, they were considered chattels in Christianity, women touched males feet in Hinduism, in Islam you can have up to 4 wives, don't need to compensate her if you divorce her even after 20 yrs of marriage, wife is supposed to be obedient so when you marry someone who is strong in the belief that men are superior and women should be obedient then hard to expect him to help in cooking, cleaning, bathing the kids, doing laundry etc. I have been to very large gatherings where men are sitting around and women are slaving in kitchens, serving food and doing dishes. In western households all the parties I attended the men were helping in kitchen and in cleaning. If 50 percent divorce rate for many women who are not capable of living alone independently is not a dire situation then what is?

    • Captain Obvious
      Captain Obvious commented
      Editing a comment
      And I am a person who looks at things practically. There are nowhere near 50 percent women being divorced by religiously observant guys and being left without any means to support them, so it's definitely not such a dire situation here.

  • #19
    Captain Obvious The most comprehensive study on Muslim divorces is done by Prof MacFarlane. Here is an excerpt. An abuser will of course not tell you that he is an abuser, the poor victim will find out when she is kicked, slapped. punched. A big no of divorcees pointed to physical abuse.

    Domestic Violence and Abuse

    One in three female divorcees described domestic abuse as the reason for divorce. Almost all these cases involved allegations of physical violence, including hitting, punching, and rape.

    Verbal abuse instances included a husband repeatedly threatening divorce and seizure of children. While no males cited instances of abuse by their ex-wives, Macfarlane recognizes that men can experience domestic abuse, as well.

    When asked how family and community responded to the allegations of abuse, the women said their families and community expected them to ?be patient? and wait until the situation got better. Often they were expected to tame their husband?s heart and cause him to be less abusive.

    Macfarlane notes that this lack of support affected some women?s willingness to go to the police. Some imams explicitly discouraged victims from seeking outside help and support, saying that non-Muslim police would not understand the importance of a Muslim marriage. Other imams had a ?zero-tolerance? policy and took steps to make sure that the victim and her children were placed in protective car
    e.

    https://aljumuah.com/marriage-and-di...-amira-murphy/

    Comment


    • #20
      Originally posted by Bobby1 View Post
      Captain Obvious The most comprehensive study on Muslim divorces is done by Prof MacFarlane. Here is an excerpt. An abuser will of course not tell you that he is an abuser, the poor victim will find out when she is kicked, slapped. punched. A big no of divorcees pointed to physical abuse.

      Domestic Violence and Abuse

      One in three female divorcees described domestic abuse as the reason for divorce. Almost all these cases involved allegations of physical violence, including hitting, punching, and rape.

      Verbal abuse instances included a husband repeatedly threatening divorce and seizure of children. While no males cited instances of abuse by their ex-wives, Macfarlane recognizes that men can experience domestic abuse, as well.

      When asked how family and community responded to the allegations of abuse, the women said their families and community expected them to ?be patient? and wait until the situation got better. Often they were expected to tame their husband?s heart and cause him to be less abusive.

      Macfarlane notes that this lack of support affected some women?s willingness to go to the police. Some imams explicitly discouraged victims from seeking outside help and support, saying that non-Muslim police would not understand the importance of a Muslim marriage. Other imams had a ?zero-tolerance? policy and took steps to make sure that the victim and her children were placed in protective car
      e.

      https://aljumuah.com/marriage-and-di...-amira-murphy/
      I?m not denying that abuse occurs in Muslim marriages. What I am saying is that I don?t see a woman more likely to be abused by someone who observes religious practices than by someone who doesn?t. The other thing is that though there might be some men who both observe religious practices and also abuse their wives/kids, you will also find this type of behaviour among those who don?t believe or follow any religion as well and you can also find practising Muslim men who don?t abuse their wives/kids as well.
      Tell your assassin to aim for her head...because she doesn't have a heart.

      Comment


      • Bobby1
        Bobby1 commented
        Editing a comment
        But if your belief says women should be obedient, men are superior compared to someone who believes women are equal and can decide what they want then who has a bigger chance of being an abuser. Our actions are based on our belief. Is it just random that countries worst in gender equality are also more religious.

      • Captain Obvious
        Captain Obvious commented
        Editing a comment
        In short I don’t think that being religious puts one at greater risk of being an abuser than one who isn’t. Gender equality and abuse are also two separate issues. So for my daughters I would rather they get married to practising Muslim men who will respect their rights/duties as per Islam rather than someone who merely believes in gender equality, which itself is something that varies depending on peoples’ perspectives as I’ve already discussed earlier in this topic.

    • #21
      decentGuy what has Altaf Hussain got to do with women sexually abused in that country, at NED university the quota system Balochs, Sindhis, Pashtuns used to abduct and rape women on a regular basis, waderas, sardars,politicians rape women regularly also. No foreign power asks you to abuse your women and children and it is sad that after being labelled the lowest in gender equality, rather then sincerely look at improving women rights we start pointing fingers at Non Pakistanis and non Punjabis.

      PS foreign masters are not asking rape of women rather curbing terrorism.

      Comment


      • decentGuy
        decentGuy commented
        Editing a comment
        People like Altaf Hussain stay in exile and peddle the propaganda about women rights, minority rights, etc. Their goal is none of those things and the people living in poor countries know that. The countries that were invaded under such propaganda, women there are living in far more dire circumstances than they were before. It’s like setting someone’s home on fire and claim the intent was to help heat up the dinner. Consensus of women of a society should dictate whose help they need, whose help they don’t need and how they want to live. No such consensus is ever sought by the foreign masters and their Altaf Hussains.

    • #22
      Originally posted by redvelvet View Post

      What if he visits the strip club but claims that he lowers his gaze?
      Lowering gaze in a strip club would make it even worse....just sayin'
      The Thread Killer!

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Life01 View Post
        Marry someone who went to bars/pubs but claimed didnot drink? Girl guy whoever...
        yes

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by gudiaali View Post

          yes
          Explain thy self!

          Comment


          • #25
            decentGuy so one can slap, kick beat his wife and will have no blame, blame only lies in Altaf Hussain and USA...where do you find such intellect? As far as conscnsus goes most prefer Sharia Laws which entails stoning of homosexuals, rape victims if they cant produce 4 male victims, killing of apostates, 70 yr olds being able to marry 10 yr olds, women not being able to leave home without Walli.

            The opposite will then happen here as consensus would be to shut our places of worship, ban the ideology and evict every adherent from the non Muslim countries.
            Thankfully west came out of dark ages and adopted the secular values of humanism.

            There is no conspiracy, we have nothing that anyone will conspire to get.

            Comment


            • decentGuy
              decentGuy commented
              Editing a comment
              If some entity seeks to help some demographic, it is only respectful to get a consensus from that demographic to see if they are willing to accept help from that entity. For example, if some country thinks blacks are facing abuse in USA and the state policies are unfair then that country should at least seek consensus of blacks living there if they want help of that foreign entity in the first place. Same goes for women in poor countries.

              Take `Altaf Hussain` as a name of a character in a novel which many actors play from time to time. Actors could be Husain Haqqani, Tarek Fatah, Ahmed Chalabi, and Fethullah Gulen. The slogans are enticing but general consensus of their target demographic know better.

              Within 4 years of liberation of Iraq, most prostitutes in whole middle east were from Iraq. The issues you mention far worsened what the liberated women of those poor countries continue to face. And the Altaf Hussains moved on with their lives in rich countries. This is why social issues should be kept separate from geopolitics as it raises doubts about intent.
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