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Advice needed for my situation

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  • Advice needed for my situation

    All my life my parents and elders raised me to believe that all a guy has to do whenever he fancies someone is to just tell his parents and that they will go the girls parents, elders and try to get the ball rolling.

    But i am now learning the hard way that times have changed in certain cases.

    I have always had a crush on my bhabi's cousin for the last 7 years who is ten years younger than me and i first saw her when my elder brother got married in 2011. Back then she was very young i.e. 17 years old while i was 27 years old and i just dismissed it as an innocent crush.

    I then moved to a new country and had to reeducate myself in order to start a new life and to pursue a new career pathway. Professionally and Academically things have not been easy, i had been fired 4 times as i was unable to cope with the fast paced working environments of those organizations where they had a sink or swim culture and those experiences have badly scarred me and hit my confidence to the core where the last time i got fired in extremely humiliating circumstances i.e. where i turned up to work, the office receptionist stopped me, went to tell my boss i was here, he came out of his office, without saying hello, anything just instructed me to follow him to a board room where there was a female lawyer present and politely requested me to sit down and then basically went like "_______ (My name), your employment is now being terminated effective immediately, ________ (Lawyers name), will explain all the details to you, thank you for your service" and then proceeded to storm out of the board room and into his office slamming the door shut.

    Alhamdullilah i have been working for a big Jewish firm now for the last 6 months where the working environment has been really nice and even though people and recruiter reach out to me on Linkedln with requests for interviews, i desperately just want stability right now and dont have the stomach or courage to take any more risks at this time.

    Anyways so during this whole process of working, studying, being fired, struggling to find another job, my parents, elders kept teasing me about being single, about how now that i am in my 30's i had aged out for really good attractive catches and that my options had now diminished very badly and all my relatives and extended relatives were aggressively lobbying for girls in their families who had broken engagements or were in their late 20's, early to mid 30's and were looking for someone without giving a damn about whether i was interested in them or not.

    The last straw for me was when my parents recommended a first cousin on mine to me whom i had always regarded as a young sister more than anything else. I realized that my naive beliefs and hopes that i held since childhood that "All you have to do is just focus on your studies, on getting set career wise and your parents, elders will find a nice match for you which you will be very happy with" was badly misplaced and that i could no longer rely on my parents, elders for getting me the kind of match i would be happy with.

    It was during this time period i thought about my bhabi's cousin and i looked her up on facebook and saw that had now grown up and i still felt the same way about her all these years but this time i began to feel why not. To be very honest, she is very pretty and 90% of people after looking at her pic and my pic will straight away flat out say "You are not in her league, forget it, you are punching above your weight".

    I told my folks about my interest in her but they were not supportive at all and were off the opinion that the girl's family and her was a complete misfit and categorically accursed me that you just see her as a doll and that you are just interested in her because of her looks and nothing else.

    I tried talking to the girl a few times on facebook but i had to do most of the talking and eventually in a few days in 2016 she completely shut me out and ignored my messages. When i reached out to 30-40 of my closest friends and confidants worldwide on what to do about this, the most common feedback was that "You have to have the girl on your side and you need to be dating her or have her reciprocate your feelings before you get your folks involved", yes there were a few people who were like "It is possible for you to pursue this girl via the arranged marriage route even if she has not reciprocated or if you don't know her or if she doesn't like you". And yes lol i also got told by a few people "This is highly immature high school type behavior from you where you are just interested in someone for there looks".

    When i asked my elders and other relatives for advice they basically told me that my perceptions that a guy's family goes to the girls family just like that was misplaced and they told me that i was being extremely selfish and that i had no care or regard for my parents name and respect

    Anyways i kept battling with my parents to ask for her hand for me but one obstacle after the other kept coming up

    - The girls father drinks

    - The girls mother is a social butterfly

    - The girls parents were once separated at one point in time and that is apparently a red flag

    - The girls khala and mamu have been divorced

    I still didn't give up and battled with my parents that i don't believe in these things, i don't believe in the crap that marriages are between 2 families and that i believe that it is ultimately between 2 people at the end of the day. Then my parents made me feel bad and were like "She is a Human Being, you are treating her as a doll, you are being very self centered in this whole thing"

    I didn't let these comments phase me, i was off the opinion that i was following my heart, that these moments come once in a lifetime and that you can't miss the boat. So i didn't give up and kept trying to press my parents to go and then other obstacles came up

    - The girl was in a steady relationship with a guy in her University but the guy's father was opposed to the union

    - The girl had been in relationships before and therefore according to my folks this was a red flag and was a sign that she is not marriage material

    I still didn't give up and finally my folks were like, look if you really like her this much, we don't have any problems it is your life, but you have to do this yourself and get her on your side, we aren't doing anything otherwise.

    The problem is that all this sounds very good to hear and simple to execute but it was easier said than done for someone like me who had never been good at this. In my absolute state of madness and desperation i wasted $10,000 going to fortune tellers and an Indian Attraction expert with whom i wasted one whole year of trying to adopt his Alpha Male philosophy i.e.

    - Go out there and try to date, romance, hit on 100 plus chicks every where you find

    - To do rock climbing

    - To take photographs of yourself doing Alpha Male Activities

    I ultimately had to give up following his instructions when one of his drafted messages did not work for me.

    In 2017 when i went for Hajj, i prayed every single moment to get this girl and i was super charged up by the perception that whatever you pray for during Hajj normally comes true.

    In April 2018, my bhabi gave birth to 2 fraternal twins and it happened just one day before the girls birthday. I used the opportunity to wish her well on her Birthday and then used it as an excuse to speak to her about the birth of her baby cousins.

    From April 2018 to July 2018, i have probably interacted with this girl the most beyond my own expectations, imaginations compared to any other time period in my life. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't extraordinary or anything earth shattering because i was the one who had to initiate the chats, had to do the bulk of the talking to get conversations going and if i didn't send her a message then she would never talk to me but thats the case with all my facebook contacts where if i don't talk or reach out to people myself, no one will chat with me so i didn't make to much of it. But i exchanged many photographs of her twin baby cousins, articles and videos i felt she would be interested in. 70-75% of the times if i would send her a message, i would get a response after like 10-12 hours, 5-10% of the times she would respond instantly but the maximum that would last for was 10 minutes max and then yes there were moments when she would not respond to me and after waiting for one whole day, day and a half if i didn't get a response or if i she read my message but didn't respond then i would send a follow up message where she either responded after 12-14 hours, instantly or not at all and i would repeat.

    The difficult i had with those thing was that i was just unable to put or implement any concrete strategy. Everything i had planned in my head in terms of what to talk to her about today and how i will take the conversation forward would go kaput if she didn't respond. My thinking was that i would during this time period build some comfort, confidence before i would tell my parents about this or if possible tell her about my feelings.

    Unfortunately everything has gone kaput in the last one month where she has stopped responding to my messages or she reads my messages but does not respond. My parents are maintaining the same position i.e. if she likes you and reciprocates then we are going otherwise we aren't as this is not how arranged marriages work.

    The vast majority of people i have spoken to agree with my folks. A few select people are like your folks know you are punching above your weight and also because they are not in favor of the girl and the family, that is why they are adopting this position because if they had been in favor of some other girl then even if that particular girl was not interested or involved with you yet, they wouldn't give a damn about whether she was not interested in you as long as they were in favor of it they would go all out to help hook you up with her and lobby with her parents to influence her to say yes.

    The way i see it right now, i just don't have a powerful case or leg to stand on as the girl is just not responding or communicating the way i need her too.

    The vast majority of the people and girls i have spoken to have told me "Just tell her the truth and get it over with". But this is easier said than done for people who are not dealing with the situation. It's easier to go gung ho and just tell a girl fearlessly about how you feel when you actually strongly believe that you have other good options out there. The last time i told someone i fancied them was ten years ago when i had no real friendship, connection with them and the girl was a complete stranger and it was very humiliating to deal with rejection. It took me a good 4 plus years to get over that experience and the memory of the whole thing. It wasn't just dealing with the pain and humiliation of rejection but the after math of the entire brigade which kept telling me "Just tell her", where they started making fun of me for the embarrassment and the criticism that followed "You freaked her out", "You are so dumb, what were you thinking? You think you can just go up to a stranger and just tell her you like her just like that?", "Don't you have a brain, what were you thinking and expecting".

    I know realistically speaking that my chances right now as it is pretty low and if i just flat out tell her everything is going to be a 99.99% failure. Even worse for me will be giving the impression to the girl that everything i had been doing for the last 6 months of speaking to her was just disguised to get close to her and that i end up appearing like just another guy who tried getting into her pants.

    But i just don't see any other alternative right now and its not looking good. It is now dawning on me that i have wasted the last 3-4 years of my life trying to pursue this and it was all for nothing where i was not able to concentrate properly on my studies or my career and i just don't see how i can agree to be with another girl (due to family pressure) whom i am not interested in because i will still be feeling for my present crush.

    One thing is for certain. That my relationship with my parents and elders is just not going to be the same again and there is nothing worse than a child losing trust and faith in his parents and elders.

  • #2
    Phew, that was a long read. My 2 cents on this situation.

    Mate, if she didn't fall for you despite you trying to get her attention for 3-4 yrs, very high chance she is never going to fall for you. It seems you already know this though. It is about time for you to move on, easier said than done yes but necessary in life if you want to propel forward. First of all, I can't believe you spent money on fortune tellers and some amateur "personality developer" but since that is done and dusted, the only option you do have left is straight up telling her, if she rejects you, you will have closure and never will have to wonder about what if.

    Look at it this way, just like you can not imagine marrying someone you do not like, for her it is the same story. You mentioned she already was dating someone so obviously she has feelings for that person. If she was interested in you, she would not just sit idly by and respond a day later or never initiate conversations. Another thing, not every girl would be comfortable with a 10 yr gap so it could be that she prefers someone closer to her age.

    You say how your family won't take your rishta to her house and how that really upsets you but did you ever wonder if they are afraid of rejection just like you? And would rather avoid the situation than be turned down which they seem to think is more than likely so are making excuses for you to stop asking them. Not saying they are wrong or right, just pointing it out.

    P.S. I know you have been through a lot with the jobs and education scenario but have faith that you will be alright no matter what the outcome. Also, unless you give another girl a chance and get to know her, you will never move on. There are so many girls out there, don't you want someone who likes you for who you are?
    Anything worth doing is worth doing well.


    • #3

      The root of the problem is in your thought process and if that does not see an adjustment, I'm afraid that even our suggestions will not be of much help to you.

      I find it troubling that you have deemed girls in their late 20s and 30s as being "badly diminished options." There is no shame in marrying a girl that is closer to your age or even a year or two older than you......someone who belongs to the same generation as you.....someone who is more relate-able.....someone whom you don't have to try so hard to forge a connection with....someone whom you can have dynamic conversation with....who will be an anchor and source of support as you weather life's ups and downs together. Isn't that what a marriage is supposed to be about?

      I know that you don't like that your family compares this girl to a doll or a guriya. But I feel that they have used an apt analogy. A doll is just a pretty face that stares back at you blankly and says nothing at all as you ramble on in a one-sided conversation; she is mute. This girl is just like a doll. You go out of your way, bending over backwards, to have a conversation with her and she does not reciprocate.

      You have only mentioned this girl's looks and nothing about her personality. Maybe you should just bite the bullet and tell her how you feel. If she returns your interest, then great. And if she declines, then at least there will no longer be any doubts in your mind and you can begin to move forward with your life. Perhaps she might become curious about you when she sees that you are no longer contacting her and she might reach out to you, but that might turn out to be a fleeting interest.

      Please don't ruin your relationship with your parents due to this girl. I think it's better if you don't disclose your plans to your friends and especially not to those whom you know have mocked you in the past or who are likely to be rude. You are in too deep, OP. You admit to have wasted several years of your life in this pursuit. There actually are other alternatives, other options but we're not able to see them if we remain stuck on only thing. It takes an inner strength, or some persistent willpower to push yourself out of a certain rut or trap. It's not easy, but it's not impossible. May Allah make it easier for you.

      I hope that helped some. Best wishes.


      • #4
        The way I see it, I have to tell the girl myself. Will be great if someone can share tips, advice, suggestions based on their knowledge, experiences on how they have done it.

        For e.g. based on my experience 10 years ago, ambushing someone and just telling them flat out leads to a 99% failure rate.


        • #5
          Hey. Thanks for being courageous enough to share your story and we hope you can read our responses with an open mind. I remember your thread a couple years back and it's nice to hear from you again.

          I don't have suggestions on how to tell the girl you like her, which I advise you don't do because she's barely making any effort to speak to you and showing her lack of interest. This expression of love will not be well recieved, in my opinion. But you can always try.

          I agree with most of the responses here and with your parents. Her rejecting you has become your obsession. It's like a drug for you and it drives you. The more someone distances themselves from us the more we want them. I can guarantee if this girl was head over heels for you right now and was just as obsessed, you'd be turned off and perhaps doubt her advances.

          In all honesty instead of spending money on fortune tellers you need to go to therapy/counselling. I'm telling you this in the kindest and most compassionate way possible. Your fear of rejection in the past as well as things which have happened in your career have given you low self esteem and its not only hurting you but everyone around you who care a lot about you including your parents and elders.

          I have no doubt you can marry someone you love, are attracted to and who will be a good spouse but you need to believe in you. The only reason you're not giving this up is because you know after this you'll have to change, and can no longer live in your fantasy which requires growing up, facing your fears and building a happy successful life which you're more than capable of doing but just don't want to.

          If you really want this girl, which I doubt you do, you'll go to her parents and ask her hand in marriage by yourself. Not pressure your parents to do so. You're in your 30s and are old enough to do so. They'll accept or reject, either way, it'll force you to snap out of your current life of dreaming and wondering. Living in this misery is what you don't want but are doing things to attract it into your life.

          Going to hajj and praying to Allah should be to ask Him to give what's best for us. Not force Him to oblige to our desires. That's not how dua works.

          Give this girl up. You're more worthy of someone who loves you. And trust, she won't be ugly. She'll love you for who are, just as you are. It's not too late to change your life.

          We're here if you need us and apologize for being harsh when you're in this tender place.
          “Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple.”


          • third string
            third string commented
            Editing a comment
            Why yall never this nice to me? Lol

          • Illuminate
            Illuminate commented
            Editing a comment
            looool. haha. third string it's cause you're on the other side breaking hearts. #anotherone

          • redvelvet
            redvelvet commented
            Editing a comment
            @third string

            It's usually evident from the tone in your posts that you're just joking around/baiting/trying to get a rise. So we give it right back to you, lol.
            In this case, it's pretty clear that OP is in emotionally sensitive situation.

        • #6
          Dude you're like on every forum.


          • #7
            I actually read Op's response on the other forum where he is more active and now I am perturbed.
            Anything worth doing is worth doing well.


            • Cashmere
              Cashmere commented
              Editing a comment
              aqua70 What's wrong with posting a scenario on multiple forums? No harm in seeking a larger audience or diverse pool of advice. I'm perturbed that such minor things perturb you.

            • aqua70
              aqua70 commented
              Editing a comment
              You misread Cashmere, it was OP's responses that were unsettling, nothing to do with him posting on multiple forums.

          • #8
            Originally posted by aqua70 View Post
            I actually read Op's response on the other forum where he is more active and now I am perturbed.
            Lol that's a mancave. You shouldn't be on there .


          • #9
            Originally posted by third string View Post

            Lol that's a mancave. You shouldn't be on there .
            Hey you led me there. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have discovered it. Good job monsieur.
            Last edited by aqua70; Aug 14th, 2018, 02:12 PM. Reason: Spelling
            Anything worth doing is worth doing well.


            • #10
              You are mentioning so many red flags. But you are ignoring the biggest red flag - the girl is completely disinterested in you.


              • #11
                Many expats living in another country find themselves in similar unique situations as yours. Visa and exploitation by employers eat up several years first (and it`s getting worse with new laws) before they get to a point when marriage is actually possible and an end to loneliness seems around the corner only to discover that their family wasted all the time when they were supposed to be finding rishtas. Going about rishta search solo seems all the more daunting and only way left to get married now seems through family back home. If family is cooperative, great! Otherwise, the distance and time away only adds to miscommunication, misunderstanding and a feeling of abandonment.

                Rule of thumb is not to fight with your family. They are just incapable of understanding your situation. Don`t fret over being abandoned. Rightnow you need only one responsible family member back home with basic communication skills to be on your team to convey to prospective rishtas your seriousness. Once you have that family member, search for proposals online in your hometown and get your family member involved with those whom you shortlist. Then on your visit home, meet them. Make adjustments to the strategy as per your situation. iA you`ll find someone where both of you will understand each other`s situation and this might even motivate your own family to get serious just in time.

                The hardest thing for you will be to actually get married without help from your family, I mean arranging the actual ceremony and where to take your wife after the ceremony. In my circle of friends, I`ve seen how families back home completely boycotted because they were `too busy` and didn`t wanted shame of ties to an `inferior` family, which was all a ploy to hide their own failure at doing the homework. For this reason, you`ll need to keep this in mind from the getgo while looking for rishtas that the girl`s family is super-cooperative and ready for a simple ceremony at perhaps someone`s home or another simple venue. Also check out hotel costs, etc. if you have no place to take your new wife to after the ceremony until you depart the country and your new wife safely goes to her parents` while her visa paperwork gets done. I`m going in these details bec. I realize how challenging these logistical issues are when you are on your own. So do the planning beforehand to determine the kind of cooperation you`ll need from the girl`s family and if you are ready to go solo about it.

                Whether you believe in marriage being a relationship between two families or not, it will always be ! Guys who abandoned their own families and tried to do the rishta thing solo became the laughing stock of their susral and got treated real bad later. Since you have long term plans, you are better off worrying about these things. So even if their role is merely ceremonial, try to involve them if at all possible.

                I would also suggest to not to seek help from or involve your friends in this. Except those who are sincere and can keep secrets. Some people act friendly only until their recommendations are not declined. Then they act super hostile and will spread rumors about you.

                As far as the girl you are interested in is concerned, I would advise not to approach her. I`m saying that bec. you`ve assessed yourself her chances to reject your proposal are 99.99%. In short, it will cause more harm than good.


                • #12
                  Dude, you have put this girl way too high on pedestal. G
                  And when you already have low expectations, what’s the harm in telling her. You have nothing to lose.
                  Cmon man, just pick the phone and say it.
                  You deserve better than just waiting around like an office boy for his boss to order him.
                  But tbh, I will worry about you, if she does accept your request. She will have you as her slave.
                  Grizzly bear


                  • #13
                    If it was me then people would have jumped on me saying value yourself, have self respect, have some self worth bla bla bla but in your case they are so sympathetic MashaAllah se nazar na lage. Since I am a girl, girls jumped on me, showing zero sympathy and some of them took it to another level. You are a guy and look all girl chipped in to console and sympathize with you. Gender bias!!!

                    At least in my case guy liked me, both parties liked each other but his family was the hurdle but here its a different scenario altogether. I am really astonished at everyone's sympathetic responses towards you instead of saying have some self respect, stop going after her and don't put your parents in such an awkward and embarrassing situation over and over again for some random girl whom you don't even know much about to begin with. Your parents and family should be your priority, not some random chick who is not even interested in you. You need to get a life!!!


                    • redvelvet
                      redvelvet commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I'm afraid I don't agree with your belief that we did not show you any sympathy at all. You provided us with a very vague description of your dilemma and still several of us asked you questions in an effort to better understand your situation and help you.

                      Yes, there are a couple of posts in this thread that have a more softer tone to them. But apart from them, most of the responses (in their own way) are blunt and the essential message in all of them is the same and that is to move on. And why do you think everyone has advised him to move on? The reasons boil down once again to value and self-respect even if people have not used those exact words. Why did Aqua pose to him the question that, "Don't you want someone who likes you for you?" It's the same as asking, "Don't you want someone who values you just as you are?" ..."Don't you value/respect yourself enough to find someone that won't shut you out of their life on FB, who actually wants to maintain regular communication with you?" These three words (value and self-respect) that you find so offensive are still mild in comparison to telling someone they need to get a life (as you have done up above) The concepts of value and self-respect apply to him as well and they can apply to multiple situations. They apply to every single one of us.
                      Last edited by redvelvet; Aug 16th, 2018, 02:35 PM.

                  • #14
                    Not worth chasing someone who isn't even remotely interested in you. The world is huge, open your heart and the right one will show up. If you can't keep her interest now, how will you keep it after marriage?


                    • #15
                      Your obsessive focus on someone who has shown no interest in you may be a symptom of your Asperger's syndrome (which you mentioned being diagnosed with in another thread)