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  • Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
    Results 73 to 90 of 94
    1. #73

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      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKSKUIjBiM0

      Saudi Cleric Says the Sun Rotates Around the Earth


    2. #74

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    3. #75

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      How embarrassing

    4. #76

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      Some people claims that Quran is not a book of science here others are hell bent to prove that Quran is one. Please look at this video

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d_9I58zQ0k


      But Quran failed to reveal about the new world!

    5. #77

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mostar95 View Post
      Some people claims that Quran is not a book of science here others are hell bent to prove that Quran is one. Please look at this video

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d_9I58zQ0k


      But Quran failed to reveal about the new world!
      That is the hilarious part. I've had people in this thread even shrug off my original question acting as if this question came out of nowhere when there was literally several posts of me arguing with a user over science in the Qur'an and this user trying to challenge the validity of scientific theories based on nothing lmfao. This question that I asked, which was stated in a non-challenging way, has pretty much displayed what is wrong with the way people treat their religion in the face of new information that contradicts it.

    6. #78

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      The Balance of Science and Religion



      I am sure he would have met the same fate if he was in an Islamic rule then.


      Hakim Bu Ali Sena


      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

    7. #79

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mostar95 View Post
      Some people claims that Quran is not a book of science here others are hell bent to prove that Quran is one. Please look at this video

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d_9I58zQ0k


      But Quran failed to reveal about the new world!
      Dear mostar, please explain how can 0=1 or 1=0? As I understand things zero can only equal zero not one. If there was absolutely nothing there to begin with then how could there come about anything at all from that absolute nothing. This means there was never a time when there was nothing at all. Something or someone intelligent who was there always brought about all the rest.

      The question is why did, someone who was there already, bring about what we call the creation and sent his revelation? The quran is the way it ought to be and people need to learn why it is that way. People are also the way they are supposed to be and they need to learn why they are the way they are. It is because the creator created things for his own reasons and not for our reasons. The quran is a book that explains in all necessary detail why he created the world and sent his revelation. This is the over all context in which people need to look at the quran in order to try and understand it.

      So existence of God is not and cannot be in dispute even by those who claim to be atheists if we are rationally consistent. As far as I am concerned, the problem is with understanding of people as to how they try to understand the message of God and what sense they make of its text and why. So those who have no idea why the quran is the way it is or why they are the way they are they cannot understand the quran. Also those who do not know the way to make proper sense of quranic text they cannot do so either.

      The quran is a book of science because it tells us to use our brains and senses to learn things in the real world as well as to rationalise on that basis to see where all this has come from and why or how. This is the actual basis of human sciences. Has anyone ever learned anything in this world without one's brain and senses? No, none.

      The quran tells us how people of the past ended up destroyed by hands of each other because they did not adopt the way of life told by God. Has anyone ever been able to stop this destruction of human beings by hands of each other by avoiding the way of life God told them? On that basis the quran tells us this will continue till people educate themselves and follow the way of life advised by God. Only if they will make proper sense of message of God and follow it faithfully they will end up in blissful, dignified and secure existence. It also tells us, that day will come when deen of Allah will become a real world reality and it is people themselves who will turn it into that reality.

      Only foolish people leave all to God but sensible people know it is a partnership between God and all he has created including human beings to work together towards a God set definite end. All because God has a plan and purpose to fulfil using all that is there.

      Do people make cars and roads or does God make them for them? So the day people wake up and realise it is God who shows people the way but it is they who need to walk along that way they will start going where they need to to go. So far people are confused due to their utter ignorance. For a detailed explanation of things see HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE.

      regards and all the best

    8. #80
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      Science and religion should never be mixed. One is based on validating hypotheses. Other on faith. Mixing the two creates a false sense of certainty.

    9. #81
      Never Give in!
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      Quote Originally Posted by Southie View Post
      Science and religion should never be mixed. One is based on validating hypotheses. Other on faith. Mixing the two creates a false sense of certainty.
      Apparently you are right Southie, but I would like to add that No Matter what we discuss whether it be Science or Faith!

      We don't see things as they are; we see things as WE are!
      I say love, it is a flower, and you, it's only seed!

    10. #82

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      My question to people who are criticising the quran is, have you actually studied the quran? If yes, please explain the way to study the quran properly only then we can go to question, how is information given in the quran different from scientific method? The quran does not ask people to believe in it on basis of faith rather it tells people to believe in it on basis of proof. The quran tells people to seek proofs of each other and offers proofs itself.

      Do you know the very first verse of the quran? What do you make of it. Please explain its actual arabic text in the quranic context. This verse clearly states the quran is highly scientific. Do not judge the quranic text on basis of nonsense of ignorant mullahs which is very obvious if you read their translations of the quran or its interpretations or explanations. Try and learn about origin of human language and its development and then learn arabic and you will see a very different concept of God in the quranic text than the one people are used to.

      The whole human race is in deep identity crisis and the quran tackles this in the very second verse of the second surah of the quran called al baqarah. Why humanity is in identity crisis? Because people have no way of knowing their origin for certain. Not only that they do not know how to live in this world properly and they do not know what to expect in time to come. So humanity is surrounded by uncertainty and only hope is scientific method of studying the quran and finding answers to really serious questions.

      1)The quran is the only book that claims to be kitaabil hakeem see 31/1-2. It tells people it is guidance for those who do works which make this world a beautiful place for mankind. Do you know meanings of words like hakeem and muhsineen? If not find out and please do not tell me about mullahs' interpretation of these words. For mullahs all such words only mean doing good or naiki karna. If in doubt read 2/177 along with it. I can prove what I say even from mullahs translations and interpretations but there should not be any need for that because mullahs talk nonsense all the time about the quran and deen of islam due to their lack of knowledge about things.

      2)In 28/2 the quran claims to be kitaabil mubeen. Find out what word mubeen means. It means it is a manifestly distinct or unique book like of which is impossible to bring about by any human being. The question is why no human being can bring about a book like the quran? It is because it is based upon what is true or right and not what is false or wrong. People have biases and God is free of any bias. In other words think about it, why will a capitalist write a book against capitalism or a communist against communism? Why will a human ruler write a book against a human ruling over mankind? And I can go on listing these things. This is why no human being could write a book like the quran because human beings come from human societies and there are not many who rise above their own societies to be critical of their societies and communities. In fact there are many points which tell us clearly that this book could not have been written by people. Do you see people making other people cleverer than themselves who are their enemies? This is what the quran is doing making all people clever by teaching them sense. It takes no human being as enemy. It is people who due to their own ignorance about the message of the quran take it as their enemy.

      3) The quran claims to be the criterion for distinguishing between truth and falsehood and right or wrong see 25/1. This is why it shows the way of life that is best possible for human beings to live by in this world properly. It tells mankind failing to learn this way of life properly and failing to adopt it faithfully will let mankind remain in terrible state of existence in this world.

      4)The quran is a book for people who already have learned sense of making proper sense of things therefore of the message in the quran see 41/3. This means the quran is not for ignorant people who are not bothered with learning sense of making proper sense of things. Moreover there are plenty of verses which invite knowledgeable people to consider verses of the quran in depth. The quran condemns people who do not learn sense of making proper sense of things and then do not consider the quran in depth. It tells us they are like animals or worse. Therefore assuming the quran is a book of nonsense or not worth our consideration is the worst human beings can do for themselves. It is because the quran is most benevolent for whatever humanity could consider of benefit. Why? Because by following its advised way of life mankind could end up united, peaceful, progressive and prosperous in this world and be rewarded for doing so in the world to come.

      5)The quran does not invite mankind to its advised way of life on basis of faith but puts forth its program that will ensure humanity is successful. It wants people to consider its road map for them and only if they are convinced this program will deliver what it says they should adopt it whole heartedly. The quran is like a building plan which is telling mankind how to build their human society properly. This is why if the plan is fine then adopting it is also fine and as soon as mankind will adopt it properly, it will start showing them results of their works according to plan. This is what deen of islam is fundamentally about.

      6)It is for this reason people should read what I explain about the quran and deen of islam and build on it rather than wasting time in baseless arguments against each other which leave the quran aside. To me all scientists are foolish if they are not studying the quran themselves and all mullahs are foolish if they are not studying the real world realities. It is because God expressed himself through creation and revelation both, not only through creation nor only through revelation.
      Last edited by Mughal1; 1 Week Ago at 09:24 PM.

    11. #83

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      Religion and science have dfferent domains and conflict occurs when either one of them trespasses onto the other's domain

      1) Science is about discovering and studying facts and their interrelationships
      2) Religion is about what the fact means to us and what to do about them

      Conflict occurs when
      1) Religion (or rather its followers) makes claims about facts based on its supposed authority.
      2) Science (or rather scientists) makes claims about meaning of facts based on its supposed authority

      Any reference to natural phenomena in Scriptures is either metaphoric or simply refers to the knowledge of the times. It's purpose is to unveil its meaning in the light of the relationship between God and the world. It is not intended as a discovery of facts or even affirmation or refutation of existing facts.
      The story of Adam or Eve, for example, is a metaphorical story and is not intended to describe historical facts like the theory of evolution does.

      On the other hand, when scientists start telling us the meaning of facts (e.g. social darwinism) they are just engaging in bad theology.

    12. #84

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      I have noticed the more reasonable people in this thread give me their thoughts. A general pattern I am noticing is affirmation that science and religion are different domains and should not really intersect.

      Though, I did not really get exploration into what would happen if your important religious beliefs were contradicted by science? How would you deal with it? Would you accept it and move on with still adhering to it or would you question your religious beliefs?

    13. #85

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      Your religious beliefs can only be contradicted by science if they were tresspassing onto the domain of science in the first place.

      The more interesting question to consider is what is the relationship between these 2 separate domains.

    14. #86

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      Quote Originally Posted by krash View Post
      Your religious beliefs can only be contradicted by science if they were tresspassing onto the domain of science in the first place.

      The more interesting question to consider is what is the relationship between these 2 separate domains.
      Religion itself has been used in the past to control humans with sets of morals and explain the unexplained (basically part of the function of religion was the "trespass on science")
      Many religions in the past and some today, for example, have differing flood myths that essentially try to make sense of why flooding happened. It looks preposterous to say that the literal cause of floods is because of the gods, but that used to be a serious belief.

      The question regarding their relationship is going to differ according to whoever you ask. It is incompatible to some, it can be a complement to others (with faith supporting religion where science fails to give answers like what happens after death).

    15. #87
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      Quote Originally Posted by SindSagar View Post
      Apparently you are right Southie, but I would like to add that No Matter what we discuss whether it be Science or Faith!

      We don't see things as they are; we see things as WE are!
      Yaani? Not sure I fully understood your comment, SindSagar

    16. #88
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      Quote Originally Posted by SID_NY View Post
      People like Mostar have spent days and nights, threads after threads bending backwards trying to prove Quran wrong. I'm sure he and others are doing to same on hundreds of websites like a organized campaign. But anyone calling Quran or Islam or Prophets wrong doesnt bother me. If someone is incapable to understand the depth of anything, its their problem and I would rather let them fix themselves. I think Quran's sanctity is way above than any Abu Jehal running their mouth.
      No comments.
      Why isn't the Dividend story among the featured threads?

    17. #89
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      Quote Originally Posted by aqua70 View Post
      "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence." Charles Bukowski.
      This is a great quote. And each side may be using this quote to describe the other!

    18. #90

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      1)There is no conflict between creation and revelation and there cannot be because both originate from God. Both have same domain ie one is reality as it is and other explains that reality in language of God.

      2)God knows what he has created and he explained it for mankind in his revealed message the way it suited his purpose or the way it is supposed to be understood by mankind. Mankind are caused to be born as babies knowing nothing at all but normally with abilities to learn using their brains, senses and bodies by interacting with whatever is there in this world. This takes time and hard work by people and that is told about in the quran when the quran tells us man is created for struggling or making efforts towards the God set goal.

      3) As we human beings struggle to make sense of both creation and revelation we make loads of mistakes because that is what is supposed to happen because we are not created fully learned or knowledgeable people. Did we know how to sit up or stand up or lie down etc etc when we were born? No. We made many mistakes when we learned all this and it was a huge struggle for us till we mastered things. We did not do all this in one day. Likewise whatever we do or need to do in this world we must struggle for it to achieve it. Nothing is accomplish by doing nothing at all.

      4)If people will read my explanation of things they will see why there is a conflict between people over each and everything. It is because we are all born at different times and in different places and therefore have different life experiences which creates differences in our knowledge of things. Some know more number of things than others and some know more about things than others. It takes time for us to discuss things with each other and exchange ideas and learn from each other. Once we learn things from each other conflicts between us disappear. The problem is some people think they know all there is to be known so there is nothing more to discover or learn. The fact is this universe is full of items we do not have any idea about. we cannot even count them let alone number them. So many kinds of trees, so many kinds of animals, so many kinds of languages among people. So to assume human beings know each and every thing in each and every respect is utterly wrong thing for us to do.

      5)Mullahs tell us the quran contains all knowledge about everything but if anyone asks them tell us names of all the messengers God has sent they look at your face. The quran does not tell us names of all the God sent messengers or their dates of births or the places they were born in etc etc. Why not? Because this was not the purpose for revelation of the quran. God's purpose for sending his revelation for mankind was to guide them in clues and not to fully program them from a to z. Had God done that we will have been fully programmed robots not people with ability to make choices and being able to do what we liked. God set this world the way it suited his purpose and not the way we will like it to be.

      6)So if anyone has learned the quran from mullahs in respect of its contextual ideology then one is in deep trouble because mullahs did not learn the needed knowledge to interpret the quran properly. Knowing arabic is not the only thing one needs when one interprets the quran but also knowledge of things the quran talks about. So the question is what does the quran talk about? Have mullahs learned the knowledge about that? The quran talks about the universe and how many mullahs scientists? The quran talks about learning sense and being rational, how many mullahs have learn to talk sense and be rational? The quran talks about human society, what do mullahs know about human society? The quran talks about politics and what do mullahs know about politics? The quran talks about culture, what do mullahs know about culture? The quran talks about economics, what do mullahs know about economics? Likewise the quran talks about many things about which all mullahs, philosophers and scientist etc etc are dumbfounded.

      7)Look at mullahs interpretation of 59/21. They tell us it is about, had God revealed the quran on a mountain it will have shattered into pieces. Anyone can place the quran on a table and one will see table will not smash into pieces. This is how foolish mullahs and scientists etc create conflicts between what God says and what God created as a reality out there by their interpretation based upon their ignorance. Scientists just take mullahs' wrong interpretations of the revelation and attribute this wrong interpretation by mullahs to God as his actual message and that is how they spread confusion among mankind. This is why I blame all people equally for misleading humanity. What people of knowledge are supposed to do is work together and complement each other with their aspects of knowledge so that we could avoid such clear cut confusions.

      8)What happens when people create confusions for each other? The truth becomes covered up with falsehood or marginalised and as a results conflicts between human beings increase in their number and intensity and suffering in the world increases and even lives are lost for no good reason at all. So the revelation of God that is supposed to be understood properly and followed faithfully by mankind so that they may struggle properly for creating a blissful, dignified and secure existence for themselves in this world becomes a useless thing for them. This is why people must try and learn what they are trying to avoid if they want unity, peace, progress and prosperity for themselves otherwise conflicts between them will continue for as long as they will continue avoiding to study revelation of God as it is supposed to be understood and followed in light of real world realities.


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