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  • Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
    Results 37 to 54 of 225
    1. #37

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      righteous's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Das Reich View Post
      well that is problematic to say the least

      sayyidna umar died in around 20-25AH , at this time a lot of sahaba were still alive , its doubtful if fabricated hadith could have been in circulation then.
      Plus there is little evidence for any written forged compilations at that time as it was so easy to disapprove them.

      Mushaf-e-Fatima ? is that the book allegedly dictated to sayyida Fatima by angel gabriel ?
      If son of Umar can quote 20% of the ahadith of the Prophet SAW (Bukari), then his daughter could have noted a few of the thing her father said? is it really that unbelievable?

      Any why cant Gabriel talk to her, if he can talk to Maryam and Sarah?

    2. #38

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      ^ At least 33% of the Sahi hadith collection is by Abu Huraira and Ayesha alone. Two very interesting individuals.
      If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

    3. #39

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      Quote Originally Posted by wonder_eyed View Post
      They will come after you and will find the Book (the Qur’aan) made redundant by the people, and a Sunnah which has been killed by them.
      So they will grab hold of the Book and the Sunnah and revive them.
      So they read them and teach them (the Qur’aan and the Sunnah) to the people and they will experience in that path a punishment more severe and more ugly than what you (O Sahabah) have experienced.
      Interesting.....We know from Quran that those who uphold QUran are the righteous. Thus, will not be punished by GOD. . However, this hadith is saying that those who follow the path of reading and teaching 'SUNNAH' will be SEVERELY PUNISHED!!

      Indeed the Imaan of one of them is equivalent to the Imaan of forty of you.
      The Shaheed of one of them is equivalent to forty of your Shuhadaa’.
      Because you found a helper towards the truth (the Prophet - sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) and they will find no helper towards the truth.

      - Reported in Ahmad
      This is interesting too. GOD is the teacher of the Quran (Quran 55:1-2), not the Mullahs. In fact, putting Islamic scholars up on a pedestal is forbidden in Quran.

      [Quran 9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords,* instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.

      In fact, the Quran questions muslims why they would even consider another source of religious guidance INSTEAD of Quran.

      [Quran 6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?* Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.


      [Quran 6:115] The word of your Lord is complete,* in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.


      [Quran 6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.

      Basically, this 'beautiful' hadith encourages obeying 'OTHER' than GOD. This is exactly what the 'test' is about. We are here to see if we obey GOD as our ONLY Lord and Master, or do we follow the words of men? If we trust GOD, we trust HIS words, not the words of men. It is as simple as that.

      Peace
      submitmj

    4. #40

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      fayax's Avatar
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      Man where do you come from making these baseless claims?


      Quote Originally Posted by submitmj View Post
      You have misinterpreted the verses.

      1) You will never read any where in the Quran words like "Obey God and obey Muhammad" or obey Jesus, or Moses..........always the word messenger........that is to emphasize that what is to be obeyed is the message of God and not the personal words of any messenger.
      Wrong. Read the Quran again. If a qoum was told that they denied their prophetS ( and yes there is an S there ) who are we to say that we will follow only one prophet and deny the rest? There are lessons to be learned from all prophets stories.

      Quote Originally Posted by submitmj View Post
      2) According to your interpretation of these verses, hadith and Sunnah would have to have been created and implemented during the life of Prophet Muhammad. However, that is not the case.
      Your logic is FLAWED!. According to history - history has been written and passed down for centuries before Muhammad (SAW). So NO. They would NOT have to be written, just like the Arabic culture was oral and have a long history orally preserved anyway.



      Quote Originally Posted by submitmj View Post
      3) Muhammad was made to swear that the only revelation he received from God was the Quran. The following verse confirms that all what is known as (Hadith Qodsy) are lies that the prophet is innocent of:

      [6:19] Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran* has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches.

      If the hadith Al-Qodsy was truly God speaking to Muhammad as they falsely claim wouldn't the verse carry a testimony to that ???


      Nowhere in the Quran is there any indication that Muhammad received from God anything other than the Quran. ...


      So where does it say anything that makes a point to support your claim?



      "Don't guess a person's character on his present situation because time has the power
      to change an ordinary coal into a precious diamond"

    5. #41
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      hareem01's Avatar
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      ^Quran also says "Ask those who know".
      “I'm quite illiterate, but I read a lot. ”

    6. #42

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      ^Does Quran indicate in any way who these people of knowledge might be?
      If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

    7. #43
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      psyah's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by submitmj View Post
      I presented a very strong argument in the post and you have not addressed it at all. You just come up with all sorts of fancy words to justify your position of upholding 'other' sources of religious guidance next to Quran. The bottom line is that GOD says the Quran is complete and fully detailed. Don't you trust GOD.

      I asked you to show your proof. I asked you to present the verses in the Quran and/or GOD's previous scriptures that says it is OKAY to uphold the words of men (hadith & Sunnah) over the WORD of GOD, and you simply CANNOT. The Quran is very clear, but you disregard them in order to follow fabricated man-made doctrines falsely attributed to Muhammad.

      If you have an Quranic basis, show the verses. That is all I am requesting. Show your proof in Quran, but cannot.


      Hadith & Sunna: Fabrications by the Prophet's Enemies

      [Quran 6:112] We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

      Important Criterion
      [6:113] This is to let the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter listen to such fabrications, and accept them, and thus expose their real convictions.*


      Quran: Fully Detailed*
      [6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?* Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.


      [6:115] The word of your Lord is complete,* in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.


      [6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.

      Peace
      submitmj
      Peace again submitmj

      First of all you are calling me an ememy of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) by insinuating I have given "fancy words" - nice try, but how can I be his (SAW) enemy when I love him and hold fast to his Sunnah that is proven to be authentic in the same way the Qur'an is proven to be authentic?

      Next the verse 6:113 talks about those enemies being people who do NOT believe in the Hereafter. There is nothing in the Hereafter that I doubt so you must admit you are wrong here also.

      For verse 114 - "as a source of law" is a mistranslation ... this should be "as a Judge" it is talking about those people who doubt in the Word of God. I have no doubt in his Word and hence this does not apply to me again.

      Next we have in verse 6:115

      Wa Tammat - And perfected

      This is the correct translation it is not correct to insert the word COMPLETE here ... Also read up the verse Al-Kahf 109

      "Say you, 'if the sea be the ink for the words of my Lord, then necessarily, the sea would be exhausted and the words of my Lord would not come to an end, though We may bring the like of it for help.'"

      By modifying the meaning of the Qur'an you are limiting the Word of God to The Qur'an. Rather The Qur'an is a perfected Word and your mistranslation is causing problems with this other verse from the same Book.

      Verse 116 - The majority of people on this earth is not equivalent to following the scholars. Rather this verse is evidence against democracy to which I believe the 'Submitters' actually are in support of.

      I hope you are more satisfied with this response than my previous one. And May Allah (SWT) Guide us all.
      The Prophet(SAW) said:
      "I am leaving you two things and you will never go astray as long as you cling to them -- they are the Book of Allah and my Sunnah." [Reported by Al- Haakim - Sahih].

    8. #44

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      Quote Originally Posted by psyah View Post
      Peace again submitmj

      First of all you are calling me an ememy of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) by insinuating I have given "fancy words" - nice try, but how can I be his (SAW) enemy when I love him and hold fast to his Sunnah that is proven to be authentic in the same way the Qur'an is proven to be authentic?
      1) First of all, I'm referring to religious scholars who uphold falsehood and attribute it to GOD and Quran. As well as those who initially collected and created the fabricated Hadiths and Sunnah 200+ years after his death.

      Next the verse 6:113 talks about those enemies being people who do NOT believe in the Hereafter. There is nothing in the Hereafter that I doubt so you must admit you are wrong here also.
      2) The Quran is very clear that those who do not believe in the hereafter will not uphold the WOrd of GOD. Let me ask you...do you believe the QUran is to be the only source of religious guidance? Yes or no?

      I have been waiting for verses to be presented that say it is okay to uphold another source of religious guidance next to Quran. Some were presented, but was easily debunked with the Quranic verses themselves. So, I am still awaiting for the proof from the Quran.

      Peace
      Submitmj

    9. #45

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      Quote Originally Posted by Nussairee View Post
      ^Does Quran indicate in any way who these people of knowledge might be?
      [Quran 56:76] This is an oath, if you only knew, that is awesome.*

      [56:77] This is an honorable Quran.
      [56:78] In a protected book.
      [56:79] None can grasp it except the sincere.*

      So, only those who are sincere can understand Quran. After all, GOD asks us many times if we wish to learn the Quran as HE made it easy to learn (contrary to the popular belief that no human can understand it).

      [Quran 54:17] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
      [54:22] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
      [54:32] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
      [54:40] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

      As well, GOD states that HE is the teacher of the Quran, NOT the Mullahs.

      [Quran 55:1] The Most Gracious.
      [55:2] Teacher of the Quran.

      And if we want to increase our knowledge we must implore GOD.

      [Quran 20:114] Most Exalted is GOD, the only true King. Do not rush into uttering the Quran before it is revealed to you, and say, "My Lord, increase my knowledge."

      So, those who follow conjecture (hadiths / Sunnah) are not sincere according to the Quran.

      Peace
      submitmj

    10. #46

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      vigoratus's Avatar
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      You're accusing others of "twisting" verses of Quran. Yet you so conveniently use verses that seem to "support" your view. How are we to know that you're not "twisting" the verses because it seems like you are just interpreting them the way you want?

      Or are you claiming that your interpretation is the most righteous among millions of muslims who believe in Quran and live according to Sunnah (which is practical essence of Quran)?

      I hope for the sake of humility and all that Quran teaches, you don't believe you're the only right one and everyone else for centuries has been wrong.

    11. #47

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      ^which English traslation of the Holy Quran are you using?
      If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

    12. #48

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      Quote Originally Posted by vigoratus View Post
      You're accusing others of "twisting" verses of Quran. Yet you so conveniently use verses that seem to "support" your view. How are we to know that you're not "twisting" the verses because it seems like you are just interpreting them the way you want?

      Or are you claiming that your interpretation is the most righteous among millions of muslims who believe in Quran and live according to Sunnah (which is practical essence of Quran)?

      I hope for the sake of humility and all that Quran teaches, you don't believe you're the only right one and everyone else for centuries has been wrong.

      I'm not twisting anything, and my argument is right out of the Quran. I post clear verses and you say that I have an incorrect understanding? The verses are self-explanatory. The problem is that you look to 'other' sources to understand Quran, instead of trusting GOD when HE says many times in Sura 54 that HE made the QUran easy to learn, does any of you wish to learn? GOD is the teacher of the Quran (55:1-2), not fabricated hearsay. Muhammad was given the Quran and that was it, nothing more.

      peace
      submitmj

    13. #49

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      Quote Originally Posted by Nussairee View Post
      ^which English traslation of the Holy Quran are you using?
      Quran The Final Testament, translated by Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D.

    14. #50
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      Wrong translations. " Dhikr" does not mean "to learn".
      “I'm quite illiterate, but I read a lot. ”

    15. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by submitmj View Post
      [Quran 56:76]
      [Quran 20:114] Most Exalted is GOD, the only true King. Do not rush into uttering the Quran before it is revealed to you, and say, "My Lord, increase my knowledge."

      So, those who follow conjecture (hadiths / Sunnah) are not sincere according to the Quran.

      Peace
      submitmj
      This is your own opinion or interpretation of ayat. This ayah seems that it's addressing the Prophet[saw].
      “I'm quite illiterate, but I read a lot. ”

    16. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nussairee View Post
      ^Does Quran indicate in any way who these people of knowledge might be?
      i'm not sure but generally it means Heirs of the Prophet[saw] and knowledgeable Scholars.
      “I'm quite illiterate, but I read a lot. ”

    17. #53

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      ^almst evry Muslim person, let alone every scholar claims to be 1!
      If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

    18. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nussairee View Post
      ^almst evry Muslim person, let alone every scholar claims to be 1!
      Well I don't so here goes your theory into the bin.
      “I'm quite illiterate, but I read a lot. ”


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