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Feb 14th, 2006 #37
Do you deny that Allama Iqbal had 2 instead of 4 wives, that he divorced his first wife, and that Aftab Ahmad was his real son? Justice Javed Iqbal doesn't say Allama Iqbal had Qadiabi aqeeda. The only thing he mentions is, his cousin and gaurdian, Shiekh Ijaz Ahmad, son of Shiekh Atta Mohammad, had Ahmadi faith.
Last edited by LastOfTheDinosaurs; Feb 14th, 2006 at 07:52 AM.
Feb 14th, 2006 #38----
Can any one tell me who is the writer of Barg-e-hashesh ?Bazinggaaaa ....
Feb 14th, 2006 #39----
Originally Posted by LastOfTheDinosaurs
Feb 14th, 2006 #40----
Feb 14th, 2006 #41----
I know Iqbal's grandson. He's a great family friend and they are not Qadiayani. I believe the mother of Iqbal was though. Not sure about him, but there are many references in the book...No doubt.
Feb 14th, 2006 #42----
Originally Posted by Diva4U
Feb 14th, 2006 #43
I have no particular interest in accepting or rejecting that Allama Iqbal had four wives. The point here is, someone, along with revelation of his/her real identity and proof and evidences, should publically make this claim ( preferrably, in documented form).
Now your statement in this regard contradicts with that of Justice Javed Iqbal who mentions only two marriages of Allama Iqbal. Obviously, Justice Javed Iqbal is a well-known figure and immediate relative of Allama Iqbal. Any rational person would consider his information to be more authentic.
However, I would not accept his position that he doesn't know the causes of the divorce. At the time of Allama Iqbal death, he was 15 years of age, sufficiently grown to understand these matters. Moreover, at that time, and for a long time after that, many of the elder would be alive. Moreover, Aftab Ahmad was also a heir to Allama Iqbal's ideological legacy, which could bring a lot of fortunes.
I have read somewhere that Allama Iqbal had wriiten to Shiekh Atta Mohammad, his elder brother who was financing his education in England, (also said to be Ahmadi by faith) from England that he wants to divorce his first wife. Shiekh Atta Mohammad had got infuriarated. Sources say this wife was Ahmadi.
Feb 14th, 2006 #44Originally Posted by OMG
This Barg-e-Hashesh thing seems to be a propaganda stunt in the religious war between Ahmadis and "Muslims". N authentic source mentions it except sectarian propagandadists.
Further, as I said before, Allama Iqbal started disassociating when opposition to Ahmadism gained an upward surge. A lot of things were at stake. Conviction may also be a strong factor. Justice Javed Iqbal accepts many things in Zinda Rud, including how Allama Iqbal praised Mirza Ghulam Ahmad,
Feb 14th, 2006 #45
Ahmadjee, what was the reason that movement agianst Ahmadis became more voilent during early 1950s? Concealed were political reasons e.g. followers of Ahmadi sect were at powerful positions in the new state? Or was it purely religiously motivated?
Feb 14th, 2006 #46
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I believe that actions like the agitation against Ahmadis in the 50s and then in 70s and then in early 80s do not have one motivation behind them, as human nature is too complex. It is similar to the host of reasons why the US went to war, you can’t really say for certain that only oil was the reason, or Saddam or WMD etc.
Most Ahmadis believe that it was purely a reaction to subdue the truth or in other words such atrocities are committed against people who believe and its history repeating itself. They also believe that it is for their own good as it makes some of them steadfast and those who are week to be shrugged of. Kinda like pruning a tree or shrub to keep it healthy and green. That’s one of the reasons you wouldn’t see many Ahmadis complaining over Allama Iqbal because he is considered to be one of those who got pruned. So while they condemn such acts of violence, they also consider it all part of the hardships that come with believing in those sent by Allah.
That being said, it is also clear that the agitators had a lot to gain, politically, as an influence of intimidation, as a religious leadership, to measure their importance/force etc. As you might know in many religious circles Maududi was discredited because he didn’t have a traditional religious up bringing in terms of education. So throughout his life he is constantly trying to fight off that stigma by being radical in his teachings. He also didn’t support the idea of Pakistan, nor believed that it can actually happen and often spoke against it, so he along with his party, needed to legitimize their presence and in political terms it means to press on some hot button issues. Lastly it also gave him and his party the influence they thought they lacked.
Some people have argued that it was due to the fact that Ahmadis had greatly outnumbered others in places of influence from business to public service and army and it was a reaction due to jealousy or just protest. I don’t discredit this argument but the way I look at the situation, I don’t think it was part of the equation. Ahmadis just are an easy target, whenever someone needs to show how religious and patriotic they are-they go do something bad to the Ahmadis.I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
- Robert McCloskey
Feb 14th, 2006 #47
This last of the dino is alwyas posting **** about Pakistan, just goto PAk Affairs and read his bakwas, and its no surprise hes attacking Allama Iqbal.
Feb 15th, 2006 #48----
Originally Posted by OMG
Feb 15th, 2006 #49Originally Posted by ahmadjee
I personally feel that top leadership at that time was nominally "Islamic" in the true sense of the word. Key players in bureaucracy, military, and politics had a hedenist view, little interested in good governance, enforcement of Islam, and promotion of democracy and more in the status-quo. Most of the financial sector was being controlled by Khoja Ismailis of Karachi.
Probably, the middle classes were developing the feelings of alienation and were trying to push for a political and social order that would accommodate their aspirations. Mullah has been a cunning player throughout history in struggle for power using the religious sentiments of people for self-elevation. As at that time, most of the rest of the society was stagnant, only Mullah had the ability, and the platform (Islam), to confront the sophistication of British-nurtured fuedal class, bureaucracy, etc.
Somewhere, I read that Khwaja Nazimuddin was a sympathizer of anti-Ahmadi movement. At that time, Ghulam Mohammad was the governer general. Khwaja Nazimuddin was a Bangali and Bangal was an aggreived party. Moreover, Khwaja Nazimuddin was just a puppet; actual power lied in the hands of Ghulam Mohammad.
Last edited by LastOfTheDinosaurs; Feb 15th, 2006 at 08:26 AM.
Feb 17th, 2006 #50----
Main aaj bohat ghamgeen hoon kiyon ke log meray Dada Iqbal :rehm: ko Qadeyani gardan rahay hain.
Keya ye darust hai ke aik mashoor aur naik hasti ki zaati zindagi par is tarha keechar uchala jaye? Woh hamaray mohsin hain. Unki poti/nawasi honay ke natay mujhay ye baat pasand naheen ke log un par is qisam ke ilzaam lagayen aur un ke zaati mamlat ko is tarha discuss karain.
Waisay Taya Javed Iqbal ko bhi naheen chahiye tha ke woh aisi kitab likhtay. Maloom naheen ke Taya Javed nay is tarha ke ilzaamat apnay walid-e-garami par kiyon lagaye? Shayed Sayyedna Noah :as: ka beta bhi aisa hi tha. Jo logon ke saath milkar apnay walid-e-garami par awazain kasta tha, mazzaq urata tha, budha, sehr zada, deewana aur najanay kis kisam ke behoda alqab apnay walid ko deta tha. Woh to Peghambar thay, Dada Iqbal to Wali hain. Darjat mein faraq hay.
Taya Javed, aap is waqt pisar-e-Noah ka kirdar ad kar rahey hain. Main pehlay Pisar-e-Noah ka qisa pardh kar heran hoti thi aur sochti thi ke koi apnay naik amal aur shareef walid ke saath gustakhi kesay kar sakta hai. Laikin aap nay to kamal hi kar diya, mujhay amli soorat mein dikhla diya. Khuda ke wastay aap meray Dada ke saath ye salook matt karain. Hamari zaati mamlaat logon ke agay ashkar matt karain. Aur bay buniyad ilzamat bhi matt lagain.
Unhoon nay aap ki khatir 4 shadiyan keen. Aap ki kisi khuwahish ko na thukraya. Aap ke liye Javed Nama likha. Aur ye ab aap unsay apni mohabbat ka izhar is tareeq say kar rahay hain ke aaj log hans hans kar ham par ungliyan utha rahay hain. Hamain Qadeyani keh rahay hain. Meri Dadiyon ko Qadeyani keh rahay hain.
Mera journal koi dekhay, main nay Dada Iqbal ki Sayyedna Mohammad :saw: ki shan mein likhi gayi naatain Urdu aur Farsi mein, apnay journal mein likhi hain, bama tarjama. Aur aap unhain Qadeyani sabit kar rahay hain? Mujhay amnay khandani mamlat logon ke agay zer-e-behs lana acha naheen lagata laikin aap nay bhi to had kardi, apnay Walid ki kirdar kushi ke liye kitab hi likh di.
Hamara haal Karbala mein Nawasa-e-Rasool:rz: wala na ki jiye. Hamain logon main zaleel matt ki jiye. Qeyamat ke roz aap Allah ko keya hisab dain gay? Apnay pak daman Walid ke baray mein is tarha ki afwahain matt phelayen.
Main ye pehlay bhi keh chuki hoon ke koi mujhay lakh bura kahay, main bura naheen manati. Laikin jab koi meray khandan ko kuchh kahay, mujh say bardasht naheen hota. Aur khas kar Dada Iqbal :rehm: par koi jhoota ilzam lagaye, mujh say bardasht naheen hota. Aap ki wajah say mujhay taqreeban har do mah baad logon ko Dada Iqbal ka interview dena parhta hai. Ab bas ki jiye. Main aaj bohat dukhi hoon. Sirf aap ki wajah say. Main aap say naraz hoon Taya ji.
Main ye baat logon ke agay karnay par majboor is liye hoyi kiyon ke aap nay bhi to jhooti sachi batain kitab mein chaap di. Aur ab log unko hawala bana kar hamain Qadeyani keh rahay hain. Main naheen roti, laikin aaj aap ki wajah say royi hoon.
Aap ki naraz beti, Maria.
Feb 17th, 2006 #51Originally Posted by OMG
But jerkwads like him cant tarnish the Iqbals name no matter how hard they try.
Feb 18th, 2006 #52----
Originally Posted by tmx305
Thanks a lot. It really hurts me when someone say such things to Dada Iqbal. I love him.
Feb 18th, 2006 #53Originally Posted by tmx305
But I would not blame you. In a desperation for history, historical legitamcy, and heroes, such overglorification campaign has been carried out for the past 50+ years, that a divergent view with slight deviation from official description is considered a heresy.
I respect OMG but I wonder she doesn't know that Allama Iqbal had two sons and two wives.
Last edited by LastOfTheDinosaurs; Feb 18th, 2006 at 06:19 AM.
Feb 18th, 2006 #54----
Taya Javed is just acting like Son of Noah:as:. He moked his father, said bad words to him, called him enchanted, mentaly retarted, wizard and any bad word he could say, he said. But history knows who is remembered till now with due respect. Who survived.
Now I dont care what Taya ji said, you keep reading this book.
Dada ji had 4 wives and one son. Its my statement and I will keep it.
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