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Feb 12th, 2006, 05:02 AM #1----
What is relation of the family of Allama Iqbal to Qadianis? Some sources say that the family had Qadiani associations. Allama Iqbal sent his eldest son, Aftab Ahmad, to Qadian for religious education. He also sought opinion of Qadian before divorcing his first wife.
Sources say his parting ways with Qadianis occurred in 1935, when he wrote an essay about them. It is said this was in reaction to another event i.e. both Allama Iqbal and Choudri Sir Zafarullah Khan, a Qadiani and the first foreign minister of Pakistan, had been nominated for Governer's Counicil of India as Muslim candidates but only Ch. Zafarullah Khan got selected.
Shiekh Atta Mohammad was elder brother of Allama Iqbal, who professed Qadiani faith.
There is a book written by Justice Javed Iqbal, son of Allama Iqbal, with the title "Apna Garaiban Chak". The book contain some interesting information about Allama and family.
Last edited by LastOfTheDinosaurs; Feb 12th, 2006 at 05:35 AM.
Feb 12th, 2006, 05:28 AM #2----
Following is a passage from "Apna Garaiban Chak" by Justice Javed Iqbal.
"During Ramadhan, mother and other women fasted regularly and recited Quran. Servants also practiced fasting. However, my father very seldom observed fasting and when he did, he used to call Ali Bakhsh again and again inquiring from him about the time left to Iftari....I never saw women saying prayers...My parents never asked me for paryers or fasting..." (page 19)
Last edited by LastOfTheDinosaurs; Feb 12th, 2006 at 06:01 AM.
Feb 12th, 2006, 05:36 AM #3----
In 1911 C.E., Iqbal sent his son Aftab Ahmad, who was getting his education in a missionary school in Sialkot, to Qadian and had him admitted to the Talim-ul-Islam school, there."
Feb 12th, 2006, 05:58 AM #4Khayyam----
Sounds interesting thatswhy if you read Allama's poetry yo will find it full of controversies and in many places he contradicts himself,it appears that he was not what you may call clear about his belief,as far as I understand he was a skeptic ,acting as a Muslim, as it suited him. Khakum ba dhahan.
What was his state of mind when he said:
Saaray jahaan say Achaa hay Hindustan hamara
Hum bulbulain hein iski yeh gulsitan hamara
I wonder who gave him the title Shaier e mashriq?
I wonder if the historian Mubarak Ali has written about Allama?
Feb 12th, 2006, 05:59 AM #5----
Munib Iqbal, grand-son of Sir Allama Mohammad Iqbal, said in the daily Jang, dated 8 May 1996: "Allama Iqbal's financial status was not good. He once requested that he be made a judge, so that financial difficulties may come to an end. However, the then Chief Justice Shadi Lal refused to accept him as a judge. If Allama Iqbal had been accepted as a judge at this time, he would have followed another path, and Pakistan would have remained behind."
Feb 12th, 2006, 06:06 AM #6Khayyam----
That means chief justice shadi lal was behind the path of pakistan or should that mean Allama opted for Pakistan for personal gain not for the Millat e Islamian e hind.
Feb 12th, 2006, 06:12 AM #7----
Don't know but this is what his grandson said...
Feb 12th, 2006, 06:16 AM #8Khayyam----
His grandson sound greater than his grandfother.Where does his grandson live?
Feb 12th, 2006, 10:52 AM #9----
Originally Posted by Khayyam
Feb 12th, 2006, 02:22 PM #10----
I think OMG (the guppy) is related to him, ask her.
Feb 12th, 2006, 02:42 PM #11----
Ironically, the great poet who admired courage, endurance, and hardiness so much as to coin ( taking inspiration from Neutche's "superman") the concept of Mardi-Momin, had an unblievable soft nature. Retired Justice Javed Iqbal writes in his book, "Apna Garaiban Chak":
"Once I, covering my eyes with the cahadar of my mother, was chasing her in order to catch her. Suddenly, I stumbled and fell on my face, hurting my lips. My mouth started bleeding. Coincedently, at that instance, father (Allama Iqbal), entered the house and seeing my mouth bleeding, fell unconcious" (page 22, paragraph 2)
Feb 12th, 2006, 02:48 PM #12----
Originally Posted by Prince of Persia
Feb 12th, 2006, 03:11 PM #13----
lol, i forgive ya.
what i meant is, ask her regarding her family's religious affiliations.
Feb 13th, 2006, 01:49 AM #14----
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No text quoted here gives any signs, Allama Iqbal was a Qadiyani, even if he was he was the one who most beautifully explained the religion to the people who could not understand it by themselves. Even scholars like Israr Ahmad gives his poetry to make people understand certain topics of Islam
And about the contradiciton in his poetries, he himself said that he refrains from giving interviews since he goes through different transitions at different stages of life, and thats for sure you don't find much of the Iqbal's interviews given to anybody, you just find his poetry to understand his thoughts.
And Allah gave Iqbal's an average life of less than 70 years, and in this span of life he wrote 7 collections in Farsi that was not his native language or mother tongue and 6 collections in Urdu.
Last of the dinosaurs you have any dinosaur who could beat him ???Piladai Mujhai Woh Mai Purda Soz, Kai Aati Nahin Fasl e Gul Roz Roz...
Feb 13th, 2006, 12:13 PM #15----
Originally Posted by Gola Gunda
I am quoting a part of this will in Urdu below from "Apna Gariban Chak".
"...baqi deeni mamilat main mai sirf is qadar kehta hoon, kai mai apnai deeni aqaid mai baaz juzvi masail kai saiwa jo arkanai deem main sai nahi hain, salf saliheen ka peero hoon, awar yahi rah baad mai kamil tahqiq kai mahfooz malum hoti hai, Javed ko bi maira yahi mashwara hai, kai wo is rah pai gamzan rahai awar is badqismat malk hindustan mai musalmanoon ki ghulami nai jo deeni aqaid kai nayai firqai mukhatas karliyai hain, un sai ihtiraz karai, baaz firqoon kai taraf loog mahaz is liyai mail hotai hain kai in firqoon sai taluq paida karnai sai dunyawi faida hai, mairai khyal mai bara badbakht hai wu insan jo sahi deeni aqaid ko madi manafai kai khatir qurban karai, gharaz yai hai, kai tariqa ahli sunat mahfooz hai, awar is pai gamzan rehna chahyai, awar ayma ahlai bait kai sath muhabat awar aqeedat rakni chayai". (page 44)
Now two things are very evident in the above passage i.e.
1. Iqbal wants to tell Javed Iqbal what is his real "aqeeda" and what "aqeeda" should he choose. Now if the faith of Allama Iqbal was well-establshed and known to the rest of the family, including Javed Iqbal, who passed some 14 years with his father, why on earth would he (Allama Iqbal) feel the need to explain his "aqeeda" to Javed Iqbal. This points to one thing that there were divergent religious currents prevailing in the family of Allama Iqbal...
It should also be noted that the movement by the Muslims to have Qadianis declared a different religious faction gained strength and intensity towards 1934-35. A clear division between Qadianis and the Muslims was in the offing and it was becoming evident that Qadianis would soon be declared non-Muslims. This was a crucial moment and a decision had to be made as which "aqeeda" to choose. The decision that was made, probably partialy due to conviction and partially to preserve the prestige and the status been attained in the Muslim world, was indeed a wise one. It was in 1935 that Iqbal wrote an essay about Qadianism and authored this will. Before that, he had good relations with Qadianis, praising Mirza Qadian.
2. Subsequently, and as highlighted in the brown color in the passage, Allama Iqbal implicitly makes a reference to Qadiani "firqa" advising javed Iqbal to keep way from it and choose the path of Ahli Sunna.
3. Also note that he is using the word "firqa" or sect while implicitly refering to Qadianis.
This clearly indicates that there were divergent religious influences in the family and Iqbal wanted Javed Iqbal to choose Ahli sunna "aqeeda". Had they choosen Qadianiath, they would not have been enjoying the prestige and status in the state of Pakistan as well as elsewhere. Allama Iqbal was receiving a handsome stepind from Nawab of Bhopal and his books were popular among Muslims generating a handsome royalty. Qadianis at this point had become very controversial and the majority-Muslims image of them was that of "kufar".
On the subsequent page, Javed Iqbal admits that his cousin, Ijaz Ahamd had Qadiani aqeeda. This cousin of Javed Iqbal became his gaurdian after the death of Allma Iqbal according to the will of Allama Iqbal.
Many authors write that the family, after its first ancestor was expelled from Kashmir and after he had embraced Islam, developed Qadiani inclinations.
Last edited by LastOfTheDinosaurs; Feb 13th, 2006 at 12:39 PM.
Feb 13th, 2006, 01:21 PM #16
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Iqbal along with many prominent Muslim league leaders had ‘Qadiyani’ connections. That is one of the many reasons why people like Maududi hated Jinnah & other Muslim leaguers & considered them heretics.
Qaid-e-Azam used to write to Hazrat Mirza Bashir-ud-din Mahmood Ahmad (the second khalifatul Messiah) for prayers, he often visit the Ahmadiyya Fazal mosque in London & used to give lectures on politics of Indian sub-continent. Abdul Haleem Dard (I am not exactly sure about his full name) the missionary in charge in the London mosque had a great deal of influence over Jinnah’s decision to go back to India in the 30s.
Sir Syed Ahmad Khan used to write letters to the Promised Messiah (as) to discuss matters of Ummah. I have read the correspondence between them on the matter of prayers where the Promised Messiah urged Sir Syed Ahmad Khan that while his efforts to educate Muslims are great he should also teach them to come back towards prayers.
Anyway, going back to Allama Iqbal, he actually signed bait (or accepted Ahmadiyyat) due to the pressure from his mother who was a devoted Ahmadi. Among Ahmadi scholars it is a common consensus that Iqbal turned away from Ahmadiyyat due to his fear that his work will not be appreciated as much if he goes along with the Jama’at. Sir Zafarullah Khan on the other hand had a totally different attitude towards being part of Ahmadiyya jama’at.
Did you know that Muhammad Ali (yeah, the boxer) & Malcolm X used to pray in Ahmadiyya mosques in US?I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
- Robert McCloskey
Feb 13th, 2006, 01:58 PM #17----
Thank you for this enlightening commentry!
Actually, the family of Allama Iqbal is so renown and its image building, by official writers, is so one-sided and exaggerated that when one reads a counter-views, one really gets shocked. Unfortunately, official histories have never been so authentic. And this is true more of Pakistan. This actually damages Pakistan than strengthens it. These personalities will still be great if we present them realistically and don't tamper with their biographies and histories.
I also read that mother of Allama Iqbal (Reh.) was a committed Ahmadi. But I didn't know that she had influence on Allama Iqbal (Reh.).
About Mohammad Ali and Malcom Max I didn't know.
Can you throw some light on his first wife and her children?
Feb 13th, 2006, 02:07 PM #18----
And what was the stand of Choudri Sir Zafrullah Khan?
In our province also, prominent Muslim Leagures had Qadiani connections e.g. Sir Sahibzada Abdul Qayum Khan. Many of the "khans" of Mardan and Sawabi were Qadianis.
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